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Police to get tough on internet trolls.
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Old 14-08-2016, 22:14   #16
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
We should work on the assumption that if you wouldn't write it in a letter to someone or say it to their face then neither is it acceptable online.
As silly as it may sound.

you might not know their address to send them a letter or to travel to, to say it to their face.
so is it the acceptable online?

if not then why not. and then is it all down to whether the person is offended?

is it down to alarm and distress?

what alarms me may not alarm the judger.
what distreeses the judger may not distress the onlooker.

it's a bit like one may not not like Marmite. but another one does.
which one's right?
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Last edited by Gary L; 14-08-2016 at 22:17.
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Old 14-08-2016, 22:32   #17
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
As silly as it may sound.

you might not know their address to send them a letter or to travel to, to say it to their face.
so is it the acceptable online?

if not then why not. and then is it all down to whether the person is offended?
There is a difference between offence and a threat. I don't think people should be arrested because they caused offence obviously. However a rape, death or sustained personal abuse is not 'offensive' it's an attack on someone.

You're right that unlike the real world the people on the internet are more distant from you but it's still possible to find out a lot about someone online and if you're in the public eye it's even more true. When someone tweets horrific abuse at a female MP because they're a Tory, against Corbyn, or a pro-EU liberal then that MP could easily be concerned they can be found. Same with other famous people.

Discussion and interaction on the internet is a part of everyday life now and a minority pursuit. It needs to grow up.
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Old 14-08-2016, 22:39   #18
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I think a lot of people see the internet as somewhere to complain. to say what they want. to get attention from the rest of the world.

pus you have the added problem that a lot of people just won't grow up. Chavs are in their 40's and even 50's and 60's now!

and a lot of them haven't got anything better to do.
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Old 14-08-2016, 22:39   #19
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

No chance, we have professionals now just looking to be outraged about.
Something/anything, it's pathetic really, plus now you have Gen Snowflake who have to have 'safe places' to talk, it's all getting a bit WTF, then again I'm an older person so I probably just don't 'get' it.
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Old 14-08-2016, 22:42   #20
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
No chance, we have professionals now just looking to be outraged about.
Something/anything, it's pathetic really, plus now you have Gen Snowflake who have to have 'safe places' to talk, it's all getting a bit WTF, then again I'm an older person so I probably just don't 'get' it.
Well if anyone is generation snowflake it probably isn't the generation who've had to pay 9,000 per year in tuition fees and had all their benefits cut.

This isn't about generation snowflake though it's about what is acceptable online and what isn't and the internet as a wild-west for abuse might be coming to an end, at least in the UK. We're not talking about trolls here but, I hope, actual threats which is a common experience for women online.
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Old 14-08-2016, 23:05   #21
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I'm not big on successive generations bitching about how ***** it is for them, whilst their dads had it easy etc, it's life deal, with it.
I'm 'outraged' I can't buy a house for 500 like my Mum did back when, times change, circumstances change, each generation has it's share of advantages and disadvantages, trotting out the 'I have to pay my Uni fee' is a bit old now. so what? you still get the opportunity to have a job with a stonking wage to compensate, if not, why do Uni?

Another thing, I'm quite upset about. In my day we only had 3 TV channels, and they shut off about 11pm, that's not fair, todays lot has 1,000 channels, and all running 24/7 that's not fair, who can I complain too.

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Old 14-08-2016, 23:09   #22
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I think the thing is the internet is a choice people make social interaction on the internet is a choice and one that comes with risks but i honestly cannot see how the police are the best organisation to work out real from hissy fit or bad mood. I've lost count over the years how many times I've been abused and threatened on the internet but i have never thought about reporting it or letting it get to me. I think too many people these days are way too thin skinned and even looking to be offended or upset and knowing the police have to take it seriously if reported is just asking for a whole lot of trouble.
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Old 15-08-2016, 10:22   #23
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I don't know why folks are fretting at all. I mean it's not as though the police aren't coping supremely well with what's already being asked of them is it. Take burglary for example, it's not as though people get burgled, phone the cops, have to wait for hours/days for someone to come round (if at all), get given a crime number and told to call their insurers is it...
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Old 15-08-2016, 10:39   #24
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

How do you define "hate speech"? There is a danger that it can be defined if the "recipient" says it is which can open up a whole can of worms.

Trolling to me is more a repeated and consistent "nastiness" than a single posting. It's probably one of those things that will be hard to define and then hard to prosecute because defence will try to show how it doesn't exactly fit that definition.
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Old 15-08-2016, 10:44   #25
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Waste of time.

The hardcore lunatics that need dealt with can already be dealt with, the moderately intelligent ones will cover their tracks well enough to cover evidence for most cases and yet more cops will be taken off the front line to create yet another department for glory hunting and headline grabbing.
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Old 15-08-2016, 11:01   #26
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Well said.

It is a bit worrying and dare I say it a bit Stasi like.

Quote:
Andrew Allison, of The Freedom Association libertarian group, said: ‘There’s a risk of online vigilantism, where people who are offended by the least thing will have a licence to report it to the police.’
Quote:
Frank Furedi, emeritus professor of sociology at the University of Kent, said: ‘Police are becoming moral arbiters rather than dealing with real issues that threaten our security.’
Quote:
The London Mayor’s City Hall headquarters has advertised for a civilian programme manager who will be paid up to 52,455 – twice what a PC earns – to co-ordinate the project.
Quote:
Social media giants such as Twitter and Facebook – which do not always comply with police requests to obtain users’ details – will be asked to help fund a ‘community’ element to the unit, in which volunteers ‘skilled in the use of social media’ will ‘identify, report and challenge online hate material’.
It is feared that this will lead to large numbers of comments being reported to social media providers or police as inappropriate, even if they were only meant jokingly or had no malicious intent.

It will be supported by an army of volunteers trained to seek out anything they deem inappropriate on social networks such as Facebook and Twitter.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-trolls.html


Yes yes I know its the Fail but...

Just imagine, now that there's the will and the way, the amount of people with a grudge or some reason good enough for them to 'report someone to the Stasi police.

We used to joke about the poor people living in places like Russia/East Germany and chortle about how that would never happen here, well... it's getting closer all the time.

Still not convinced I'm not in WTF Earth, my Earth seemed to disappear 30 years ago.
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Old 15-08-2016, 12:27   #27
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
No chance, we have professionals now just looking to be outraged about.
Something/anything, it's pathetic really, plus now you have Gen Snowflake who have to have 'safe places' to talk, it's all getting a bit WTF, then again I'm an older person so I probably just don't 'get' it.
I doubt the Police are concerned about someone on Facebook or a forum just posting some random crap to slightly offend people and get a reaction. They are annoying, but not really doing any harm..

The problem comes when people threaten death, rape or other serious injury online, and mere trolling becomes bullying. Remember Gamergate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy)? That started with some people objecting on various forums to a game put out by a female developer, then escalated into people threatening to rape or kill her, as well as publishing her own personal details online.

I think the problem is that we have a generation of people that in some ways are so au fait with internet communications that they consider it the same as using the phone or speaking in person, but they are not aware (or don't care) that while they may consider what they are saying to be a laugh or a joke, not everyone does.

Another part of the problem is we still have a pack mentality. Some people see someone being abused online, and rather than think "that's awful", and report it, or question it in the thread, think "that looks fun" and join in.

A good moderating team should be able to spot that sort of thing, and take appropriate action, but the problem is that facebook and twitter (where a lot of this stuff happens) are effectively unmoderated.

We've even seen the sort of threats here, actually made against Russ. An ex member told Russ that if Russ ever went to Manchester, as soon as he got off the train, this ex-member would be waiting for him.

The only slight logistical problem with that is that, at the time, Russ didn't have a facebook account, and he hadn't uploaded any photos here, so the member would not have known what he looked like, what station Russ would have got off the at, or even when Russ was going to arrive. Bought to mind visions of a dishevelled ex member of the forum just randomly popping to the railway station beating up random Welsh people.
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Old 15-08-2016, 14:17   #28
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

It's simple really.Read the article but don't bother with the 'debate' underneath.

As for forum trolls..if people stick to sites that have strong moderation you should be fine.
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Old 15-08-2016, 15:12   #29
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
The problem comes when people threaten death, rape or other serious injury online, and mere trolling becomes bullying. Remember Gamergate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy)? That started with some people objecting on various forums to a game put out by a female developer, then escalated into people threatening to rape or kill her, as well as publishing her own personal details online.

I think the problem is that we have a generation of people that in some ways are so au fait with internet communications that they consider it the same as using the phone or speaking in person, but they are not aware (or don't care) that while they may consider what they are saying to be a laugh or a joke, not everyone does.
Exactly it's two different worlds. We're used to a conventional troll where keyboard warriors act tough online and say things to provoke people. What we're talking about here is not trolling, it's not 'causing offensive', it's harassment and threats.

Putting a woman's address online accompanied by a threat of rape or death because she said something about gaming some dweeb has taken offensive over is something the police should deal with.
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Old 15-08-2016, 15:32   #30
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I agree but I somehow doubt it, I'd expect instead to see things like:

Quote:
Yesterday it emerged that a Labour MP had reported a student to the authorities at Bristol University for what she considered a death threat.
Verity Phillips, 20, tweeted to local MP Thangam Debbonaire that she should ‘get in the sea’ – a regular dismissive phrase used on Twitter.
The politician replied: ‘This person has just told me to drown – I believe that is a threat to kill.’
Quote:
Mother-of-two Debra Burt was questioned by police after writing on a friend’s Facebook page that she wanted to throw an egg at David Cameron.
Quote:
In the most notorious case of police over-reaction to a single tweet, Paul Chambers was fined for joking he would blow up an airport if it was closed by snowfall.
It took several years before his conviction was quashed on appeal.
Source as before.

So you'll have to excuse me being rather sceptical, I'd expect to see many more of this type rather than the examples posted further up the thread.
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