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Old 24-06-2016, 11:09   #1
martyh
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Post-Brexit Thread

We could simply withdraw by repealing the 1972 European Communities Act and negotiate with the separate nations ,or we could use Article 50 and let the EU dictate the timetable .Since there is no precedent it is unclear how Article 50 will actually work and with Cameron resigning we may end up with a leader that doesn't favour using Article 50 to leave the EU
 
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Old 24-06-2016, 11:40   #2
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

I think we'll end up with a Norway style deal or won't invoke it
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Old 24-06-2016, 11:41   #3
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

or rebadge EU as the Commonwealth of Europe, suggests it has reformed and join that instead
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Old 24-06-2016, 12:11   #4
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

its a two year process [i believe] so i see no point in delaying invoking article 50 why put off until tomorrow what you can do today ,i think a delay gives the opportunity for undemocratic and unethical practices to be invoked ,cameron said[promised] he would do it he should do it or go now.
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Old 24-06-2016, 12:31   #5
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
its a two year process [i believe] so i see no point in delaying invoking article 50 why put off until tomorrow what you can do today ,i think a delay gives the opportunity for undemocratic and unethical practices to be invoked ,cameron said[promised] he would do it he should do it or go now.
It's not a question of putting anything off ,it's whether we should use Article 50 to exit the EU .Only the EU say we have to use it ,it is for their benefit not ours ,we could in theory simply change our own laws and then begin negotiations with other countries
 
Old 24-06-2016, 12:43   #6
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

I think constructively we should use article 50 it means negotiations are for both sides I don't think now is the time to just withdraw this vote has shocked everyone article 50 gives everyone and everything time to calm down and regain some perspective. I do think article 50 should be implemented within two weeks maximum delaying it serves no purpose and if we can't resolve the various issues within two years more time is unlikely to deliver results.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:04   #7
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
It's not a question of putting anything off ,it's whether we should use Article 50 to exit the EU .Only the EU say we have to use it ,it is for their benefit not ours ,we could in theory simply change our own laws and then begin negotiations with other countries
why antagonise the EU there is a mechanism in place to facilitate our exit we should use it ,we should part on good terms .
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:10   #8
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
It's not a question of putting anything off ,it's whether we should use Article 50 to exit the EU .Only the EU say we have to use it ,it is for their benefit not ours ,we could in theory simply change our own laws and then begin negotiations with other countries
If we just leave would we not have trade with all other countries as per the WTO rules and then we would have to negotiate with each individual country while trading under those rules.

J
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:14   #9
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
why antagonise the EU there is a mechanism in place to facilitate our exit we should use it ,we should part on good terms .
The mechanism is skewed in their favour and is not designed for use as a bargaining tool .The whole idea of having the referendum is to take back control so it's rather ironic that to take back control we give up all the control to the other 27 nations ,and if we didn't want to antagonise the EU we shouldn't have held a referendum that effectively says their rules and regulations are complete bollocks and we don't want them

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiefrost View Post
If we just leave would we not have trade with all other countries as per the WTO rules and then we would have to negotiate with each individual country while trading under those rules.

J
I believe that is the case .We would have to trade like most of the world does
 
Old 24-06-2016, 13:30   #10
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
The mechanism is skewed in their favour and is not designed for use as a bargaining tool .The whole idea of having the referendum is to take back control so it's rather ironic that to take back control we give up all the control to the other 27 nations ,and if we didn't want to antagonise the EU we shouldn't have held a referendum that effectively says their rules and regulations are complete bollocks and we don't want them

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------



I believe that is the case .We would have to trade like most of the world does
sorry my mistake- i thought you started a debate Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:38   #11
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

We should - but not until the Govt leadership is concluded.

Why?

we'll lose 3 or so months to no effect as we're now effectively leaderless. It won't hurt to wait a bit, not everything in life needs to be a knee jerk snap reaction.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:44   #12
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
It's not a question of putting anything off ,it's whether we should use Article 50 to exit the EU .Only the EU say we have to use it ,it is for their benefit not ours ,we could in theory simply change our own laws and then begin negotiations with other countries
To be fair, it's not the orders of the EU, it's Article 50 of a treaty we are signatories to.

We will use the exit mechanism, because that's what it's there for. It's just a matter of when, and I think waiting until we have a new PM is sensible.

There is no rush. We need to get this right.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:54   #13
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
We should - but not until the Govt leadership is concluded.

Why?

we'll lose 3 or so months to no effect as we're now effectively leaderless. It won't hurt to wait a bit, not everything in life needs to be a knee jerk snap reaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
To be fair, it's not the orders of the EU, it's Article 50 of a treaty we are signatories to.

We will use the exit mechanism, because that's what it's there for. It's just a matter of when, and I think waiting until we have a new PM is sensible.

There is no rush. We need to get this right.
That's exactly what's required. We may live in an age when folks get upset when their phone takes more than a nanosecond to send a message around the globe but this is a time for reflection, to let the dust settle, lets the emotions calm down and then proceed in an orderly fashion.

That's what I expect from leaders in the UK and the EU and if they have any sense that's what will happen.
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Old 24-06-2016, 14:32   #14
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
sorry my mistake- i thought you started a debate Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?
Yes i did ,that doesn't mean i have to agree with you .The problem with Article 50 is that once it is started it cannot be stopped regardless of whether we approve of negotiations or not .As Chris just said first we need a new PM and than their first decision is how to exit the EU that best serves the UK not the remaining 27 nations.If that means using Article 50 then so be it, but there are other alternatives
 
Old 24-06-2016, 14:41   #15
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Re: Should the UK invoke Article 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
its a two year process [i believe] so i see no point in delaying invoking article 50 why put off until tomorrow what you can do today ,i think a delay gives the opportunity for undemocratic and unethical practices to be invoked ,cameron said[promised] he would do it he should do it or go now.
Depends what they are planning. I've seen some people suggesting that this attempt to leave the EU is an attempt to get better terms for rejoining the EU. This is a possibility if they don't invoke Article 50. If they invoke Article 50, if my understanding is correct, there will be no option to rejoin the EU.

Do I think the government will rejoin the EU under any circumstances? I don't know. Most of Parliament appear to want us to have stayed in the EU, so maybe they will. The MPs that wanted to leave won't, I don't think they will, although several of them have shown they are perfectly willing to change allegiances (Bo-Jo being the major one).
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