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Corbyn's kerfuffle
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:46   #721
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
i get the feeling he thinks its the memberships party and not the [mp's] who should serve the membership not ignore them .
and he is right.

They serve the members and the people who vote them in.

Its the MP's trying to cause trouble who have it wrong, they may not want him as leader but has been voted in now "twice", they have to just get their heads down and get on with it. Even if it means pain in the next election.

What they dont realise is that all the in fighting will be causing more damage than he potentially might.
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Old 11-10-2016, 08:46   #722
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Does that really matter though? Remember, Miliband used to be able to keep his finger firmly on the pulse of the 'common man' during his walks on Hampstead Heath...
Let's hope for his missus that was all he was keeping his fingers on.
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Old 14-10-2016, 13:47   #723
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Oh well I suppose things had to start getting better for Corbyn at some point:

Quote:
Paul Mason has launched a scathing attack on The Sun newspaper for its discovery the die-hard Jeremy Corbyn loyalist secretly called for him to be ousted as leader.

Mason, former economics editor at Channel 4 and BBC’s Newsnight, reacted to the covert filming of his comments made in a bar in Liverpool by calling for a boycott of The Sun and branding its journalists “scabs”.

He also issued a personal insult at the paper’s political editor Tom Newton Dunn, saying it was “sad that a man with two last names and a hyphen has to employ people to spy on private conversations of other journalists”.

On Friday, The Sun revealed how Mason talked privately with a contact about Corbyn’s lack of appeal to working class voters, a quality frequently boasted about by the Labour leader’s supporters.

Mason also discussed plans to oust Corbyn from the top job and replace him with Clive Lewis, the ex-shadow defence secretary who was demoted after a clash with the leadership over nuclear weapons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0e982146c5b86

There seems to be some doubt about whether Comrade Corbyn's Islington elite would recognise the working class if they walked up and smacked them in the face...
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Old 14-10-2016, 14:22   #724
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Its actually quite worrying to watch Paul Mason's journey down the communist rabbit hole...
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Old 14-10-2016, 20:51   #725
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Labour remains committed to renewing the Trident nuclear weapons system, new shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith has said.
She told Forces TV she harboured "serious doubts" about it in the past but Labour policy was to back it and that was not likely to change.
Ms Griffith replaced Clive Lewis when Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn reshuffled his shadow cabinet earlier this month.
Mr Lewis's conference speech on Trident was changed at the last moment.
He was believed to have been prevented from committing categorically to Labour renewing the UK's nuclear weapons system by the leader's office.
Labour's official policy is to support renewing the Trident system, but leader Jeremy Corbyn - a longstanding CND campaigner - wants to change the party's position and launched a defence review to examine the issue.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37654111

It's reassuring to know that Labour policy is so clear on matters of national importance...
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Old 16-10-2016, 00:34   #726
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
and he is right.

They serve the members and the people who vote them in.

Its the MP's trying to cause trouble who have it wrong, they may not want him as leader but has been voted in now "twice", they have to just get their heads down and get on with it. Even if it means pain in the next election.

What they dont realise is that all the in fighting will be causing more damage than he potentially might.
Okay. What happens when the interests of constituents conflict with the demands from the leadership?

How exactly does it help the party to have MPs get themselves voted out by doing what an unprecedentedly unpopular leader tells them?

Looking at the Labour Party's polling and comparing it to Jeremy Corbyn's personal polling, a distant 3rd for Prime Minister behind 'don't know', I'm not convinced that anything could cause more damage than Corbyn.

---------- Post added 16-10-2016 at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was 15-10-2016 at 23:26 ----------

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ne...jews-5p9h033lr ()

Quote:
MPs blame Corbyn for ‘vile’ abuse of Jews

Jeremy Corbyn has allowed “institutional anti-semitism” to thrive in the Labour movement and has made his party a “safe space for those with vile attitudes towards Jewish people”, a damning report by an all-party committee of MPs has concluded.

In a withering judgment on the Labour leader, MPs on the home affairs select committee concluded that Corbyn has shown a “lack of consistent leadership” in tackling anti-semitic abuse within the Labour ranks.

The report — signed off by the Labour MPs Chuka Umunna and David Winnick — questioned whether Corbyn “fully appreciates” the nature of anti-semitism and said the party was guilty of “incompetence” over its handling of high-profile allegations of anti-semitism.

It also delivered a damning verdict on a report by the Labour peer Baroness Chakrabarti, saying her conclusions exonerating Labour in her investigation of anti-semitism in the party were “clearly lacking” and saying her decision to take a peerage from Corbyn had “completely undermined” her report.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:52   #727
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has not done enough to tackle anti-Semitism in the party, a committee of MPs has said.
The Home Affairs Select Committee report criticised him for a lack of "consistent leadership" on the issue, which it said benefited people with "vile attitudes" towards Jewish people.
Mr Corbyn accused the committee of a "disproportionate" emphasis on Labour.
The MPs also criticised Twitter, which they said hosted "vast swathes" of hate speech and abuse aimed at Jews.
Their Anti-Semitism in the UK report said the social network should do more to identify abusers. A spokesman for Twitter said it tackled hateful conduct "head-on".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37656197

Quote:
In June, a report by the former director of human rights body Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti - who has since become a Labour peer and shadow attorney general - found that the party was not overrun by anti-Semitism or other forms of racism, but there was evidence of "minority hateful or ignorant attitudes and behaviours".
However, the MPs said the Chakrabarti report had failed to deliver "a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of anti-Semitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with anti-Semitism".
What's the Baroness got to say I wonder?
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Old 16-10-2016, 10:43   #728
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

I had a little chuckle, thinking of awfully cheesy action hero's 'quick call the Baroness'
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Old 16-10-2016, 10:45   #729
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

What has Labour got against Jews ? is this a historical thing ?
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:14   #730
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
What has Labour got against Jews ? is this a historical thing ?
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:21   #731
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds View Post
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.

what are these views??? any links to them
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:24   #732
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds View Post
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.


Thank you for that

Here's me thinking the Labour party should be for the working man and less fortunate in society
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:57   #733
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
what are these views??? any links to them
Jackie Walker of Momentum:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37547873


Quote:
She was suspended by the Labour Party in May over comments made on social media in which she claimed that "many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade" but was re-admitted following an investigation.
She was suspended again from the party last week after a leaked video emerged.

It showed her saying at an anti-Semitism training event: "I came here... with an open mind and I was seeking information and I still haven't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that I can work with". She also questioned why Holocaust Memorial Day was not more wide ranging.

Vicky Kirby

http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/vicki-kirby-on-jews/

And I won't bother supplying a link, but rather simply say "Ken Livingstone"

These are Members (hopefully former members) of Labour or groups closely linked to Labour. is that good enough?

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
i get the feeling he thinks its the memberships party and not the [mp's] who should serve the membership not ignore them .
The problem with that is that the MPs derive their mandate from their constituencies, and from a voter base that's much wider than just party members.

While there are a lot of folk who will vote only by party and pretty much ignore the local candidate's pluses/minuses, others (like me) are sometimes prepared to look beyond a candidate's party banner and vote for them on their record in work locally.

Look at it like this: Say the Labour membership vote to change the party policy to make petrol driven cars illegal in 10 years. Should the Labour MPs in Ellesmere Port (Vauxhall Factory), Halewood (Jaguar Land Rover factory), Sunderland (Nissan), Derby (Toyota) simply roll over and agree to that?
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:30   #734
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:
She was suspended by the Labour Party in May over comments made on social media in which she claimed that "many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade" but was re-admitted following an investigation.
She was suspended again from the party last week after a leaked video emerged.

It showed her saying at an anti-Semitism training event: "I came here... with an open mind and I was seeking information and I still haven't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that I can work with". She also questioned why Holocaust Memorial Day was not more wide ranging.


so is that statement an historic untruth ? and "jews" never financed those trades ?
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Old 16-10-2016, 13:43   #735
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

The issue isn't did Jews finance the sugar/slave trade or not, but rather the fact that she's blaming the Jews for slavery by referring to them as the "chief financiers of slavery", echoing the tropes that Jews are all greedy moneygrabbing capitalists.

Her worst remark however is the one regarding not finding a definition of anti-antisemitism she's happy with. That's a bit like the BNP saying they can't find a definition of racism they're happy with...
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