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Old 14-09-2017, 23:47   #91
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I did not bring 'hoovers' in to the debate. I brought Sir James Dyson views on Brexit in to this debate. I think it was Mr K who then started his assault on his actual Hoovers.

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------



I prefer the old dust pan and still use them, given I don't have carpets downstairs.
Agreed, i didn't say you did mention hoovers, anyway I think we've covered most models now.

Good to see you and MrK agree on the merits of dust pans.
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Old 14-09-2017, 23:50   #92
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Can we have a separate vacuum cleaner thread ? There are many issues to discuss, what's wrong with a dustpan and broom for example ?
You're a sucker for a new thread.
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Old 14-09-2017, 23:52   #93
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
You're a sucker for a new thread.
But he needs to promise there won't be any dust ups
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Old 15-09-2017, 00:00   #94
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by daveeb View Post
But he needs to promise there won't be any dust ups
Let's not brush any controversy under the carpet though.
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Old 15-09-2017, 00:05   #95
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Let's not brush any controversy under the carpet though.
yes that would be dyson with death for the thread.
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Old 15-09-2017, 05:25   #96
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Can only say as i find Mick. Had a Dyson, it broke down just out of warranty. Bought a Vax for the fraction of the price, cleans better and has lasted years.
Well we had a Vax and one or two other brands and they certainly don't measure up to a Dyson but each to their own likes and dislikes.

---------- Post added at 04:25 ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I see where it is going. Hardline remainers just cannot get behind brexit if they died trying. So they then attempt to mock Dyson products to some how discredit his view on Brexit. Not going to work with me. Dyson is an intelligent guy. A successful entrepreneur.

Bottom line is. We will be better out.
Well Mick we are going out whether it is for better or for worse as no one knows exactly how the game will play out as they say.
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Old 15-09-2017, 10:07   #97
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Ignitionnet View Post
Actually let me ask peeps here - if we go WTO, which it looks like we will, the EU's tariffs kick in on our exports to them. What would people have us do in response?
Sorry, just catching up here. If you go WTO, it's not just the costs of the tariffs which will be borne by the customer, it's the non-tariff barriers to trade we really need to look out for.

Here's an article for example on the concerns for Dover - https://www.ft.com/content/f308e8bc-...c-9588e51488a0

The HMRC does not think it will be ready for the sheer volume of customs checks needed for cross channel trade. On top of this is the potential divergence of standards between the EU and UK. If we start to separate ourselves from EU standards, then the EU will require inspections to ensure conformity to their standards to make sure we don't sneak a bendy banana or 2kW vacuum cleaner over the water.

This will suddenly affect 44% of our exports and 53% of our imports where before, it was frictionless.

Of course, we do this for the current 56% and 47% but this is an effective doubling of the load on customs and regulatory agencies.

In addition, to customs and conformity, it will seriously affect manufacturer supply chains. Manufacturers warehouse materials with hours worth of stock and rely on a smooth supply chain for efficient running. Delays of a few hours of delivery of materials can shut down production. This worries car manufacturers for example.

Finally, we can't ignore the 'Rotterdam Effect' and non-EU imports through ports not in the UK but in the EU. Joining the WTO tariff plan will remove EU ports from the equation..

Think tanks like Economists For Brexit have proposed zero import tariffs as a libertarian response but this still doesn't answer the question of conformity and traceability (plus zero import tariffs will destroy what's lefts of our manufacturing and agriculture)
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Old 15-09-2017, 13:29   #98
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
Sorry, just catching up here. If you go WTO, it's not just the costs of the tariffs which will be borne by the customer, it's the non-tariff barriers to trade we really need to look out for.

Here's an article for example on the concerns for Dover - https://www.ft.com/content/f308e8bc-...c-9588e51488a0

The HMRC does not think it will be ready for the sheer volume of customs checks needed for cross channel trade. On top of this is the potential divergence of standards between the EU and UK. If we start to separate ourselves from EU standards, then the EU will require inspections to ensure conformity to their standards to make sure we don't sneak a bendy banana or 2kW vacuum cleaner over the water.

This will suddenly affect 44% of our exports and 53% of our imports where before, it was frictionless.

Of course, we do this for the current 56% and 47% but this is an effective doubling of the load on customs and regulatory agencies.
Thanks.

Think I made the point earlier that it's very confusing that on one hand HMG are claiming to be ready for any result while on the other they are making no substantial preparations. When talking about doubling load you have to also remember that the load is unevenly spread - ports like Dover where the vast majority, 80-90%+, of imports are from within the customs union need quadrupling of customs capacity and so far nothing has been done.

In other news a little reminder that, for all the rhetoric, neither Juncker or the Commission get to decide what happens within the EU, the member states via their MEPs and heads of government do - paywalled:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ears-3v6v3vnqf

Quote:
France and Germany are demanding the right to suspend the European Union’s passport-free travel zone for up to four years at times of crisis amid fears over terrorism and migration.

A confidential diplomatic paper seen by The Times reveals that the EU’s two biggest countries are pushing for the Schengen zone to be suspended in “exceptional circumstances”, making all travellers subject to border checks as they enter a country.

The European Commission is pushing for an end, within weeks, to emergency frontier controls introduced after terrorist attacks and during the EU’s migration crisis.

The demand will be a blow to Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the commission, who said on Wednesday that the passport-free travel zone, alongside the euro, was a foundation for a future federal Europe. He was accused of drawing up a blueprint for a “United States of Europe” with more centralised powers, as he called for Bulgaria and Romania to join Schengen.

Under the border-check proposals, which are also supported by the Schengen members Austria, Denmark and Norway, governments would be allowed to introduce frontier controls for years rather than months and to keep their reasons for the checks secret.


---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I see where it is going. Hardline remainers just cannot get behind brexit if they died trying. So they then attempt to mock Dyson products to some how discredit his view on Brexit. Not going to work with me. Dyson is an intelligent guy. A successful entrepreneur.

Bottom line is. We will be better out.
On the flip side of that, however, are hardline leavers who won't consider the possibility that we may be worse out. It's impossible to say unequivocally that the UK would benefit either way, however the weight of forecasts from those who should, in theory, be unbiased leans heavily towards the UK being economically worse off until at least 2030.

As I've said a couple of times it's noteworthy that neither of the two major leave campaigns attempted to campaign on economic grounds.

Whether the benefits of leaving the EU will balance this is probably subjective.

Extreme opinions from people willing to completely disregard any evidence that doesn't agree with their point of view abound on both sides of the argument with zero possibility of being dissuaded so it's a busted flush as far as discussion goes.

I'm not going to disagree with Dyson. He is not an unbiased observer in this - his issues with EU regulations governing his products are well known - but he is putting his money where his mouth is which should be respected.
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Old 16-09-2017, 09:03   #99
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
So let me get this right.

Rather than a Minister with an oversight committee fast tracking approx 12.000 EU rules, regulations and laws onto the statute books to comply with UK law instead of an EU body or the ECJ being the arbiter you'll be happy.

The alternative is introducing each and every one to parliament for discussion and amendment which will take years.

All the time that takes they will be null and void as we will no longer be members of the EU leaving a very large black hole in our statutes.

The Great Repeal bill has a limited time of application (the opponents don't mention that do they?) and ends on Brexit day whenever that may be.

Any of the rules regulations or laws that have been adapted can be modified by due process in parliament as and when they deem necassary just like any other laws.

So, what is your alternative?
You're not right. No where did I state I was a particular fan of the EU or the ECJ in fact truth be known I dislike them almost as much as our own politicians who we've decided to give up scrutinizing on the understanding that they've given their word they won't abuse the privilege
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Old 16-09-2017, 11:54   #100
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Re: Brexit discussion

Bonkers Boris has repeated the £350m for the NHS lie. More to do to with leadership ambitions than any desire to help the NHS, when did he last use it ? If there was any money it would of course go on tax cuts for high earners, who most need it. Great timing too, just after a terrorist attack. I think Kermit would make a better PM...
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Old 16-09-2017, 12:03   #101
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Bonkers Boris has repeated the £350m for the NHS lie. More to do to with leadership ambitions than any desire to help the NHS, when did he last use it ? If there was any money it would of course go on tax cuts for high earners, who most need it. Great timing too, just after a terrorist attack. I think Kermit would make a better PM...
The man is a fool and even more he is a liar....
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Old 16-09-2017, 12:08   #102
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Old 16-09-2017, 12:39   #103
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Re: Brexit discussion

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For the benefit of Remoaners, this is a big picture not the big picture .
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Old 16-09-2017, 12:39   #104
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Bonkers Boris has repeated the £350m for the NHS lie. More to do to with leadership ambitions than any desire to help the NHS, when did he last use it ? If there was any money it would of course go on tax cuts for high earners, who most need it. Great timing too, just after a terrorist attack. I think Kermit would make a better PM...
Where would you spend the membership fee once we leave because that's what is happening, Mr K, we are leaving, so where should the money go?

Boris suggests most of it should go on the NHS, the membership fee needs to be spent on something. I am not sure what is wrong in him writing an article that was probably written before yesterday's events, hardly fair to blame that event on him.
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Old 16-09-2017, 13:07   #105
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Where would you spend the membership fee once we leave because that's what is happening, Mr K, we are leaving, so where should the money go?

Boris suggests most of it should go on the NHS, the membership fee needs to be spent on something. I am not sure what is wrong in him writing an article that was probably written before yesterday's events, hardly fair to blame that event on him.
It falls down with the figure for a start. We don't give £350m net to the EU. It's been explained many times but the cloth head has repeated it. He's either very stupid (most likely) or he thinks the British public is.
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