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Old 18-08-2009, 11:41   #46
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Re: disability living allowance

People don't have to be 'on the take' as such, all they have to do is give the people that ultimately pay them(ie the DWP). what is perceived to be the DWP's desired result.
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Old 18-08-2009, 11:54   #47
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Re: disability living allowance

What Nug said.

Quote:
Besides do you think anyone is stupid enough to post what they can not substantiate.
Yes

<thanks, Nug, for saving me the typing>

<btw, my bad re libel/slander - thanks for the correction>

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
People don't have to be 'on the take' as such, all they have to do is give the people that ultimately pay them(ie the DWP). what is perceived to be the DWP's desired result.
But there is a major difference between that and being on the take/crooked - one is a perception, one is a libellous sweeping comment stated as fact.

In fact, in an article in the Daily Hate last year, a doctor stated that Atos took the opposite stance - link
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Old 18-08-2009, 13:26   #48
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Re: disability living allowance

There is a problem with some doctors and that is a fact one incident i am aware of was an eighty year old woman with severe arthritis who had lived on the ground floor of her house for fifteen years. When she was visited by a doctor working on behalf of the dwp he asked her to climb the stairs and she refused stating she couldn't so there was no point he then put her down as uncooperative.

I do not however support the views of one poster here that they are on the take or corrupt in anyway. I think the guidelines they have to follow are so open to interpretaion at some points and closed at others as to make the whole process as confusing for them as for us the claimants. Right now we have a system that is failing those in need failing those trying to police it and failing the doctors who are tasked with trying to get to the truth.

This is deliberate on the part of the government to cut the number of successful claims and to minimise a problem that is far more widespread then they like to admit. My own gp has expressed many times to me his complete disgust with the current system and the way it forces everyone involved in it to act and think and he is a very experienced gp.

What needs to happen is for the truth to be accepted by all party's yes there are abusers just as there are in the tax system or in fact any system that exists but you cannot build an entire process around those small minoritys of people. Benefit claimants in my own opinion do have to be prepared to be scrutinised and most genuine claimants i have met including myself have absolutely no problem with that. As long as when it happens we are not then branded with the "fraud" brush that both the media and our own damn government is so happy to label most on benefit with.

I am grateful to all those in this country that are able too and do work because without them we couldn't have any system to help the vulbnerable in our society. They do whether some like it or not have a right to know that they tax they pay is indeed going to people that deserve it and is not funding lazy workshy scroungers.

A fair system that meets the needs of those in need whilst protecting the taxpayer in the country from abuse is vey much needed but it has to be done the right way. That means no government can misuse the benefit system when it suits them to manipulate statistics as this labour government has certainly done. It means no government can use benefit as a convinient thing to divert attention from other things that are going wrong and it means the media has to stop highlighting individuals and representing them as some form of majority of claimant.

In short it will take some one\party with more courage then i see in any of them right now before we can start to have a system that is fair to all involved whilst meeting the needs of the vulnerable but i can hope .
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Old 18-08-2009, 14:12   #49
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Re: disability living allowance

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Old 18-08-2009, 16:08   #50
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Re: disability living allowance

mmmm Interesting. Its like saying that all all MPs and crooked over their expenses swindle. Its just a catch all phrase! However I know for a fact that the DWP employs a points scheme for those doctors who kick more off DLA tend to get more work and more work equally higher fees...You work it out!

Statistics from the BMA show one of the highest rates of drunks in the professions belong to doctors. I AM CLAIMING THAT ONCE A DOCTOR HAS BEEN REDUCED TO Working FOR THE DWP, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY HE/SHE MUST BE A HOPELESS DRUNK OR DRUGGIE.

Its really is such a shame the people of this nation are so thick and complacent to have allowed the country to be reduced to it current mismanaged state where every is chaos and very little works...on your heads be it.

People should not have the grovel for their benefits and the system should be such that those who abuse it are punished to the extent that they will never try it again, and the punishment would serve as the REALLY warning to others.

What we need in this country, and believe me the situation is now desperate, is a government that can govern in the long term best interests of our nation. Britain has not had one of those for generations hence the state of the Union today.


Meanwhile sit back and keep watching as the vulnerable be kicked of the DLA they deserve and need, and take a butchers at this as its look like there will be no DLA for us to squabble over.


A reply from an MP RE DLA/AA-GREEN PAPER

Further to recent correspondence between us, following my enquiry on your behalf, I have now received the following information from the Office of the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

"We want to provide high quality services that best support more disabled people; and particularly in the current economic climate, we all need the new system to be affordable and sustainable. As part of this we must consider the role of disability benefits in the context of the overall system of disability-related support.

We think there is a case for bringing some disability benefits and the new social care system together into a single system, as a better way of providing support through a new National Care Service.

We know that disability benefits are popular because they provide a universal entitlement which does not depend on where a person lives, they provide a cash budget which can be spent on the services someone wants, and people often use them to support lower-level needs that help them stay well for longer. These three aspects - a universal system that is consistent across the country, flexible methods of payment through personal budgets, and a focus on prevention and lower-level needs - will all be important components of the new care and support system.

It is important to note that this is a consultation exercise around options for long-term reform. No final decisions have been made yet, and it is vital that everyone has the opportunity to contribute to this important public debate. This consultation - the Big Care Debate - will run until 13 November 200


We will only make any changes to disability benefits if we are certain that by doing so we can better support the needs of older and disabled people. Whatever changes we make, we want to ensure that people receiving any of the relevant benefits at the time of reform would continue to receive an equivalent level of support and protection, under a new and better care and support system.

METHINKS IT TIME THIS COUNTRY WOKE UP, MPs ROB THE JAMPOT...YOU JUST GET THE STICK PAPER LABEL.
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Old 18-08-2009, 16:38   #51
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Re: disability living allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAROLWHITIE View Post
mmmm Interesting. Its like saying that all all MPs and crooked over their expenses swindle. Its just a catch all phrase! <snip snippetty-snip>
Sorry to cut the rest of your post, but this is rubbish. I don't think that anyone with half a brain thinks that all MPs have fiddled their expenses (what with there being proof that some didn't actually claim for anything at all) - what you wrote wasn't a catch-all phrase; it was, as I noted previously, a sweeping generalisation that was, in actuality, not so much wide of the mark as in a different timezone.

No-one would dare to suggest that there aren't any number of people (doctors included) who would take the quick buck option, but lumping them all into the same pot (and then describing them as 'usually drunk') is grossly unfair to those who try to work the system in aid of the benefit claimant - some of them do exist, you know.

You obviously have an agenda (political or otherwise) involving this subject - whilst many may agree or disagree with regards to the changes that are provisionally being made to the benefits system, this does not give you the overbearing right to proclaim your opinion the right one. In fact, the very fact that you appear to be doing this rather suggests that it probably isn't...
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Old 18-08-2009, 17:12   #52
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Re: disability living allowance

Carol, you raise some interesting points, and yet once again manage to be fairly insulting to a large number of people
Quote:
Its really is such a shame the people of this nation are so thick and complacent
or is that another one of your catch-all statements?

You also state
Quote:
However I know for a fact that the DWP employs a points scheme for those doctors who kick more off DLA tend to get more work and more work equally higher fees
How does that marry up with the fact that the DWP (in this scenario, DCS actually, but that's being picky) has outsourced the work to Atos Origin (Healthcare), and does not actually pay the doctors - are you saying Atos Origin and the DWP/DCS are working together to deny claimants DLA? So the DCS Decision Makers, their Supervisors, the people who carry out the Quality Audits, the Atos Origin Managers, their Quality Auditors, and the Doctors are all in on this?

Do you have any proof of your assertion, or are you just making it up as you go along?

On a more positive note, potential claimants and their friends/families/cares may find this link useful, as it provides an outline of the role of Atos Healthcare and the advice they can offer to clinicians, and some desk aids and other guidance.

btw, I do not work for either Atos or the DWP.
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Old 18-08-2009, 17:35   #53
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Re: disability living allowance

Oh boy how naive can you be, your not living in Utopian country but in corrupt dirty Britain in 2009.

If you think MPs did not fiddle you, then how do you explain a 40grand duck house when people are struggling below the poverty line.

I see the government has trained you well <removed>

I have no agenda, political or otherwise, save to see fair play all round.

But as you know best, then this is not the place for me, and I am gone from here with this post.

When you wake up you will see who daft you are! However, when you wake up to these things it will be like someone has smashed you over the head and it all too then .

I trust you find the truth about this country and the deceit over the ECJ judgement of October 18 2007 which has caused so much misery to many who have had their DLA illegally stopped. You will be next

Wake up people, wake up as when its gone its gone.

I am outta here as of now.
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Old 18-08-2009, 17:36   #54
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Re: disability living allowance

I am on DLA i am a genuine receiver of this benifit and any doctor i have seen over the years has always been sympathetic to my needs. I think you Carol are being very rude tarring everyone with the same brush and as for branding people thick and complacent and the docs alcoholic and crooked is out of order, i for one am not thick or complacent.
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Old 18-08-2009, 17:37   #55
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Re: disability living allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAROLWHITIE View Post
<snipped to remove insults>
I have no agenda, political or otherwise, save to see fair play all round.

But as you know best, then this is not the place for me, and I am gone from here with this post.

<snipped again>

Wake up people, wake up as when its gone its gone.

I am outta here as of now.
Hide the sharp objects.......

Carol, you seem to respond to questions with personal insults - not the best persuasional tactic I have come across.....

btw, still awaiting your "evidence" re the alleged points scheme.
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Old 18-08-2009, 19:00   #56
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Re: disability living allowance

Carol i understand you may be passionate about this and even making such allowances for that, you are not helping yourself or the cause you claim to care so much about with your approach. Also please stop the insulting of ALL medical personnel as being either drunk druggies or corrupt unless you can provide proof of that.

No one here is being naive just because we don't share your approach to this there are many angles that have to be considered in defeating any possible legislation. Many on these forums either are benefit claimants or know someone who is and by and large most on here know the truth of the situation and are very well aware that benefit is not some happy go lucky existence. Please stop the insults you are making because that is gauranteed to make people deaf to your message faster then anything else.
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Old 18-08-2009, 20:52   #57
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Re: disability living allowance

Guys, can we get back to the subject?
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Old 18-08-2009, 20:56   #58
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Re: disability living allowance

It's not just you.

Carol may have some valid points, but they are drowned out by the insults and the invective; people are hearing the messenger, not the message.
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Old 18-08-2009, 21:19   #59
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Re: disability living allowance

I look around my country today an see the people in need suffering. I look around my country today, one which I have been led to believe is a democracy.

I KNOW THAT IN A DEMOCRACY IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT CONTROL THE POLITICS. I LOOK AT SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IF THEY ARE ONE OR THE OTHER AND THEN ............................................I conclude that ignorant complacent plebeians who know no different, must have voted for them as no sensible people would have.

This is clearly manifest by two terms of labour and three of the Cons previously.

Surely given the current stae of our nation today only a real dumbo would fail to see this.

As for the duck I never said get rid of Labour over this I said get rid of the lot of thieving barstewards as they are all robbing you blind and we have not even looked and civil service expenses yet.

Look if then peasantry is happy with this situation and simply want to ignore it, then thats fine by me...just get on with it its your suicide and that of your loved ones, and not mine as I am already wised up to what is happy and made my provisions.

We are hardly what one would describe as being an enlightened electorate....we even let Brown sign our country away to Europe when he sneakily signed the Treaty of Lisbon over XMAS last year and one, and clearly to give away our sovereign powers to another nation is Treason under the Bill of Right 1688 I believe. Yet most of the public are too thick to even bother to know this or protest. Nu Labour promised you all a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon, but Nu Labour knows you are all too thick to care, too busy with footie and the telle.

So I am fully justified with my comments.
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Old 18-08-2009, 21:22   #60
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Re: disability living allowance

So, we are -

ignorant complacent plebians
dumbo
peasantry
its your suicide and that of you loved ones
too thick
too thick (again)

Convinced me with your sweet words and convincing logic - you could be a politician. As I said before, you may have some valid points, but you are not getting them across - if you have proof about your DLA accusations, show it; otherwise you could be just another conspiracy theorist, venting on the web.

Love you xxxx
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