Southern rail strike talks to be held on second day of commuter misery - Page 4

hedgie · 23-12-2016, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

It's quite simple, if trains without guards are dangerous show me the stats where the current trains without guards have more accidents.

Driver only trains have been operating for 30 years, if the're not safe how do they keep going. The London underground has no guards but thousands and thousands of people use it
daily.

JF

You can't compare the Tube and overground rail, even on the surface stations.

I have done safety studies on LU and NR Stations and they are very different in some respects.

not withstanding the differences I'm sure the Southern region can be made safe with DOO. The trains will still be staffed by two train crew.

OLD BOY · 23-12-2016, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Old Boy.
Sorry my friend you are totally wrong.
If it is nothing to do with the Government, then why is Chris Grayling involved. He is the biggest pain in the arse going.

The Government should strip both companies of the franchise. The customers are being treated disgracefully. And next year prises will rise. And they are NOT stupid as the companies know that passengers will pay it.

Grayling should get the Unions round the table today, and get this strike called off.

He should take a leaf out of the Airports personnel.
Baggage handlers and pilots were going on strike. This was quickly resolved. So what cannot this dispute be solved/

This Country should look at China - l believe. There railways are conducted by computer, they run on time, are clean. And if they break down. They are taken out of service and replaced straight away by another train. So the service is NOT effected.

This strike is NOT over money. Its over safety.

If you check. Two years ago Boris Johnson wanted TFL to run trains on lines so that EACH station would have a train in it.
The Unions stopped this on the grounds of safety.

The Underground and Upper ground trains are run on very old tracks. And the tunnels are Victorian. So you MUST have a second official on trains.

IF you travel on the new trains on the London Underground now. ALL carriages are now totally walk through.

Arthur, my dear chap, this is not about safety. The unions have absolutely no case and I have not seen anything at all that supports their protest that the new arrangement would be a safety risk. It's not as if the same system that is being proposed doesn't operate without issues elsewhere on our railways!

Interesting that you think that because trains operate over old tracks and the tunnels are Victorian, this justifies the case for having the guards closing the doors! Very strange bit of logic there.

Interesting also that you wax lyrical about China. Do you know what they would do with striking employees?

TheDaddy · 23-12-2016, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What a strange thing to say.

As I said, the dispute is about the RMT's refusal to accept Southern's requirement that drivers on trains should be responsible for closing the doors before departure. That is a normal employer/employee issue and nothing to do with the Government.

What is the Government's responsibility is making sure that the contracts it has awarded for the provision of services work satisfactorily. It was self evident many months ago that it wasn't, and so the Government should have taken action against the company before now.

I find it difficult to understand why you are supporting the union in this dispute. It's a strike over nothing and will achieve nothing. They really want a fight with the Government. If it comes to that, they will lose, but they don't have the sense to realise that.

I support anyone's right to withdraw their labour, what don't you understand about that and who does wilkinson work for when he made those comments, is it the government, I keep hearing about that union bozo and his speech, that's been all over the news but the crush the unions and boot out anyone who isn't a doormat seems to have slipped under the radar.

Arthurgray50@blu · 23-12-2016, 20:09

Yes, but isn't it strange that there are NO TALKS being arranged. Yes, it may be Xmas. But if l was in charge. I would sit BTH parties round the tables until it was sorted.

I would strip the two franchise of there licence.

and yes support any strike that puts the safety of its workers and passengers first. This is why you pay Union fees like me

heero_yuy · 24-12-2016, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

and yes support any strike that puts the safety of its workers and passengers first. This is why you pay Union fees like me

This strike is not about safety.

Arthurgray50@blu · 24-12-2016, 16:15

If its NOT about saferty, why are they out on strike. I believe they are on strike as the Gova want to get rid of Guards.

Guards provide safety elemants and they open the doors. And make sure they look after the passenger

Its called safety. Yes, there are many trains, that have drivers only. But this is why the Government doesn't want to get involved. So that Gova can run rings round the Union. This wont happen.

IF, the RMT and ASLEF pulled all there workforce out. You cannot run the railways. Its that simple

heero_yuy · 24-12-2016, 16:22

I know that you're not interested in FACTS but please read this:

Quote:

Claim

Independent inspectors say that driver-only trains are safe.

Conclusion

That’s the conclusion of the Rail Safety and Standards Board, and the Office of Rail and Road, who both say that such systems are safe provided that appropriate procedures are in place. Trade unions disagree.

FACTS

The drivers are being used by the union chiefs to bash the Tory's.

nomadking · 24-12-2016, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If its NOT about saferty, why are they out on strike. I believe they are on strike as the Gova want to get rid of Guards.

Guards provide safety elemants and they open the doors. And make sure they look after the passenger

Its called safety. Yes, there are many trains, that have drivers only. But this is why the Government doesn't want to get involved. So that Gova can run rings round the Union. This wont happen.

IF, the RMT and ASLEF pulled all there workforce out. You cannot run the railways. Its that simple

Quote:

But independent safety watchdogs have stressed these trains – which have been operating for more than 30 years and account for around 30 per cent of services in the UK – pose no extra risk to passengers.

Quote:

Southern insists no one will lose their jobs or have a pay cut under the changes.

Quote:

It was claimed today drivers are 'faking' faults on trains to disrupt services further when they are running.
Every time a fault is reported, Southern is obliged to take it out of service for it to be investigated.
But it has been claimed that many of the complaints made show no fault when investigated.

24-12-2016, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If its NOT about saferty, why are they out on strike. I believe they are on strike as the Gova want to get rid of Guards.

Guards provide safety elemants and they open the doors. And make sure they look after the passenger

Its called safety. Yes, there are many trains, that have drivers only. But this is why the Government doesn't want to get involved. So that Gova can run rings round the Union. This wont happen.

IF, the RMT and ASLEF pulled all there workforce out. You cannot run the railways. Its that simple

The government have stated that all franchises will have DOO trains written into them.The strikes are about lost membership when the guards are phased out when new franchises are awarded.The unions may have more sympathy if they where honest about the reasons.

nomadking · 24-12-2016, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

The government have stated that all franchises will have DOO trains written into them.The strikes are about lost membership when the guards are phased out when new franchises are awarded.The unions may have more sympathy if they where honest about the reasons.

The role of guards will change to be more customer orientated and it doesn't happen until 2021. No job losses are involved.

Quote:

"The role of the conductor is evolving into the role of the on board supervisor and trains that have a conductor today, will have an on board supervisor rostered on them going forward."
He claimed there will actually be more people on board than there are currently and the on board supervisors will all be safety and security trained.

OLD BOY · 24-12-2016, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I support anyone's right to withdraw their labour, what don't you understand about that and who does wilkinson work for when he made those comments, is it the government, I keep hearing about that union bozo and his speech, that's been all over the news but the crush the unions and boot out anyone who isn't a doormat seems to have slipped under the radar.

So you support the unions calling people out on strike for spurious reasons?

Again, whatever politicians may be saying out of frustration, the issue is between the unions and the employer, and the Government is concerned with its contract with Southern. The Government certainly shouldn't get embroiled with negotiations with the unions!

---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Yes, but isn't it strange that there are NO TALKS being arranged. Yes, it may be Xmas. But if l was in charge. I would sit BTH parties round the tables until it was sorted.

I would strip the two franchise of there licence.

and yes support any strike that puts the safety of its workers and passengers first. This is why you pay Union fees like me

Not if safety is a non-issue, Arthur.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If its NOT about saferty, why are they out on strike. I believe they are on strike as the Gova want to get rid of Guards.

Guards provide safety elemants and they open the doors. And make sure they look after the passenger

Its called safety. Yes, there are many trains, that have drivers only. But this is why the Government doesn't want to get involved. So that Gova can run rings round the Union. This wont happen.

IF, the RMT and ASLEF pulled all there workforce out. You cannot run the railways. Its that simple

They are on strike because the unions are politically motivated.

Safety is being put forward as the excuse, but they have not made their case to justify this as an issue.

Arthurgray50@blu · 24-12-2016, 19:25

My god lots of points here.
1) It has nothing to do with bashing the Tories. If the Tories had there way, we would have ANY foreign company running the railways by being given the contract on the cheap. And forget abut any British company, who could do a better job

2) The Unions are there to PROTECT there members. And they have been told by Gova, that there will be no loss of jobs. Now tell me where have we heard that before

3) Yes, the RMT and ASLEF do bring there workers out on sometimes 'trivial matters'. Just think how many times have passengers been told that there is NO restaurant or heating on the train. The passengers are treated very badly by the companies concerned. And yet prices will go up again.

4) IF, Grayling, or Gova for that matter had any thought for the passenger. Why haven't they sat down with the Unions involved - such as the Airlines - who were threatened with strike action.

I have bashed the Tories so many times that l have lost count. If they had there way, there wouldn't be any Unions in this country. But Unions are there to protect the workers.

And l still remember what a reporter was told by a passenger recently on TV.

The reporter said to a woman. Do you know that drivers had gone on strike. The woman replied ' I didn't notice, as the service is that bad' Now that shows you what the passengers think

nomadking · 24-12-2016, 20:14

So they've gone on strike because the business has said that there will be no job losses and that there would even be an increase in staff?

Must be a first.

TheDaddy · 25-12-2016, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So you support the unions calling people out on strike for spurious reasons?

I support the right of all workers to withdraw their labour and I have enough respect for them to trust them to know what's in their interests. So you don't like democracy then and don't support the basic principles of it?

---------- Post added at 00:08 ---------- Previous post was at 00:06 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

The government have stated that all franchises will have DOO trains written into them.The strikes are about lost membership when the guards are phased out when new franchises are awarded.The unions may have more sympathy if they where honest about the reasons.

Much easier to get rid of people when their job isn't saftey related and mandated to

27-12-2016, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The role of guards will change to be more customer orientated and it doesn't happen until 2021. No job losses are involved.

There will be job losses ,the guards are losing their jobs to start with ,they will be given new titles and duties along with new contracts and most likely a lesser pay scale .If you think that introducing DOO trains doesn't involve cutting jobs then you are wrong ,the whole idea of DOO trains is to cut costs by cutting manpower