Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Great result for parliamentry democracy.

Government loses key Brexit bill vote after Tory rebellion

Originally Posted by rogerdraig

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are making a lot of assumptions on tariffs. But in any case, if we have to accept tariffs by the EU, the government has already said that this is covered by the fall in the value of the pound.

In answer to your question, assuming the economy improves with our ability to increase exports to the rest of the world, the person in the street should benefit from that. Trade will continue with the EU, of course, we're not pulling up the drawbridge!

If there’s no trade deal, we will have to accept EU MFN tariffs for exports to the EU. I would have thought that an uplift in pricing due to tariffs would make UK exports less competitive, especially with agriculture and fishing for example. How this reconciles with no hard border in Ireland, I don’t know.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Great result for parliamentry democracy.

Yes it is refreshing and hopeful for our democracy that there are some MPs that are not prepared to be bullied and herded like sheep, and will vote for what they know is right and in the best interests of the country. Another coffin nail for the hard Brexiters.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes it is refreshing and hopeful for our democracy that there are some MPs that are not prepared to be bullied and herded like sheep, and will vote for what they know is right and in the best interests of the country. Another coffin nail for the hard Brexiters.

There is no such things as a hard or soft brexit. Terms made up by hard Remainers.

We are still leaving, Brexit is still happening, as it should do, you know that bit about democracy, that you persistently disrespect.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes it is refreshing and hopeful for our democracy that there are some MPs that are not prepared to be bullied and herded like sheep, and will vote for what they know is right and in the best interests of the country. Another coffin nail for the hard Brexiters.

Agreed. Great to see MPs putting their country and constituents first. David Davis should take note.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Great result for parliamentry democracy.

But not really because Parliament already had a say on Brexit, when it decided to give the the people the choice to decide, well, the people decided to leave in overwhelming numbers, not thousands, not hundreds of thousands but over a million, that is a huge majority.

That leave decision meant leave, not doing back door deals or staying connected with one foot in the door, these people have had enough of 40 years of corruption with these EU scumbags.

We are still leaving, it will just get dragged out by pathetic remainer MPs who will try their best to thwart it, delay it, like they have from day one, the same ones who think we cannot manage without the corrupt EU, we can and we should and we are going to, millions of people who voted to leave are not going to let this get shoved under the carpet, especially since I and many of these leavers do not want to be associated or connected to any corrupt entity trying to form a United States of Europe. Yuck, no thank you!

In other news, Electoral Commission has found that Russia spent less than one dollar on adverts in the EU Referendum. Hardly pushing a narrative of their interference, so evidence of the meddling is a bit like CNN, Very Fake News.

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed. Great to see MPs putting their country and constituents first. David Davis should take note.

They have done no such thing!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

In other news, Electoral Commission has found that Russia spent less than one dollar on adverts in the EU Referendum. Hardly pushing a narrative of their interference, so evidence of the meddling is a bit like CNN, Very Fake News.

Facebook wrote to the Electoral Commission about paid advertising only.

The British politician leading an inquiry into Russian disinformation in the UK has attacked Facebook for failing to provide enough information after the social media company admitted Russian accounts had bought ads in the run-up to the Brexit vote...
Damian Collins, chair of the committee, said Facebook had not answered its questions: “Facebook’s statement to the electoral commission does not answer the questions that I put to [Facebook CEO] Mark Zuckerberg,” he said.
“It would appear that no work has been done by Facebook to look for Russian activity around the EU referendum, other than from funded advertisements from those accounts that had already been identified as part of the US Senate’s investigation,” he added.
Facebook has sidestepped questions for months from MPs and journalists about Russian interference through its platform in the UK.

https://www.ft.com/content/3bc945a2-...4-0a1e63a52f9c

Originally Posted by Mick

There is no such things as a hard or soft brexit. Terms made up by hard Remainers.

Hard Brexit = Canada style trade deal or less
Soft Brexit = Canada-style deal including services (David Davies called it Canada++) or more.

It does have a difference. The terms are used to define how close a relationship with the EU we'll have.

Also all these 'leave means leave, we'll have nothing to do with them' is a nonsense. They are our largest trading partner and right on our doorstep. I am not sure what fantasy exists where they'll cease to be an entity we have to deal with.

[1andrew1]

For anyone wondering why British business wants to continue to be governed by EU rules, I recommend they Google the following FT article "Why British businesses are calling to stay under EU rules"
https://www.ft.com/content/1a6e3294-...4-0a1e63a52f9c

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Facebook wrote to the Electoral Commission about paid advertising only.

https://www.ft.com/content/3bc945a2-...4-0a1e63a52f9c

It is still completely rubbish. I did not need any help by any Russian, Australian or Canadian to vote for Brexit, the corruption of the EU itself over 40 years, helped me decide on my own merit, I would say that was the same reason for 17.4 Million people.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

For anyone wondering why British business wants to continue to be governed by EU rules, I recommend they Google the following FT article "Why British businesses are calling to stay under EU rules"
https://www.ft.com/content/1a6e3294-...4-0a1e63a52f9c

It does not matter what British Businesses wants, a democratic process took place. People voted to leave.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It is still completely rubbish. I did not need any help by any Russian, Australian or Canadian to vote for Brexit, the corruption of the EU itself over 40 years, helped me decide on my own merit, I would say that was the same reason for 17.4 Million people.

Which bit is rubbish? Facebook is still being investigated, that's the issue. How manipulated you were by social media is not the question.

Originally Posted by Mick

It does not matter what British Businesses wants, a democratic process took place. People voted to leave.

This is not about not leaving it's about understanding how we can maximise employment and tax revenue for public services like the NHS and armed forces.

Originally Posted by Mick

It is still completely rubbish. I did not need any help by any Russian, Australian or Canadian to vote for Brexit, the corruption of the EU itself over 40 years, helped me decide on my own merit, I would say that was the same reason for 17.4 Million people.

I don't know what, if anything, Russia did with Brexit and I agree they wouldn't have caused it. There is a long history of Euroscepticism in the UK. How fever the accusation levelled about Russia's involvement in the UK is to stir up division, hatred and anger with the idea a divided country is a harder on to govern. So using trolls/bots to amplify divisive messages, boost the perceived numbers of what are actually of a small minority of people and so.

That to flood the internet with actual fake news so that nothing is true. There is a good amount of evidence that stories of migrants attacking people originate on Russian sites or twitter accounts. RT took a photo of ballots to be counted in the Scottish Referendum to suggest the vote might have been rigged.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Which bit is rubbish? Facebook is still being investigated, that's the issue. How manipulated you were by social media is not the question.

That's just it, I and many others weren't, if at all.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

That's just it, I and many others weren't, if at all.

The issue at the moment is that the social media companies have supplied insufficient information to the enquiry. It's not about how much or how little people were influenced by it or even which side the accounts took.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

If there’s no trade deal, we will have to accept EU MFN tariffs for exports to the EU. I would have thought that an uplift in pricing due to tariffs would make UK exports less competitive, especially with agriculture and fishing for example. How this reconciles with no hard border in Ireland, I don’t know.

I think the real objective should be to find solutions, not just keep putting problems in the way.