Brexit discussion

[Ignitionnet]

And so Boris' campaign for leadership begins in earnest.

[Osem]

Whatever it is that we 'save' on EU 'subs' the NHS could happily swallow all of it and still want more. That's the reality.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

And so Boris' campaign for leadership begins in earnest.

Well his last one did not go well.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by denphone

Well his last one did not go well.

There's a non-trivial chance we'll end up with a leadership contest between Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Rather than rousing diatribes in the Telegraph perhaps Boris can point us to his manifest achievements in his current position. Given it's so obvious that the UK will thrive he could also pursue the release of the impact assessment of leaving the EEA on over 50 sectors of the UK economy that has been done by DExEU.

When he's done with that releasing the Treasury's analysis of economic benefits of future FTAs outside the EU would be good.

It's not like either of these undermine our negotiating position. The EU is apparently a massive bureaucracy so no doubt will have conducted its own analyses. They will, however, better inform the people, although I'm not convinced the public being well-informed is desirable to either Johnson or Rees-Mogg.

Pretty depressing when a couple of populist lightweights, born into the upper class, both happy to deal with the great political issue of our time through misdirection at best and blatant lies at worst are the front-runners for Prime Minister.

On the up side, however, perhaps those on the left that've bought into Jeremy Corbyn's view of a socialist paradise outside of the neo-liberal grasp of the EU might be woken up by both Johnson and Rees-Mogg's enthusiasm for tax cuts and deregulation.

Then again, pigs might fly. People on both extremes on these issues and the political spectrum are absurdly emotionally invested to the total exclusion of facts and evidence.

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

A reasonable dissection of some of Boris' nonsense is here.

There are an awful lot of things the EU could be criticised for. In his usual fashion of not bothering to do his homework and waffling to conceal his laziness and lack of interest in details and, well, facts, Boris elects to re-run the referendum campaign with many of the same falsehoods.

Mogg, has already ruled himself out and I think may have purposely ruled himself out by putting it out there about his staunch catholic beliefs on abortion and gay marriage.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

Mogg, has already ruled himself out and I think may have purposely ruled himself out by putting it out there about his staunch catholic beliefs on abortion and gay marriage.

Can't see many people wishing to rule themselves in for now to be honest. There's too much scope for career ending damage.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Osem

Can't see many people wishing to rule themselves in for now to be honest. There's too much scope for career ending damage.

How come?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mr K

He's either very stupid (most likely) or he thinks the British public is.

He's not stupid but you're right he thinks we are, for a start he thinks we're dumb enough not to have seen through his act after all this time

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

How come?

There are various books and videos available I'm sure....

[Ignitionnet]

A couple of articles discussing what Johnson may be up to.

https://goo.gl/msZiSA

Boris is back. For the last year, the UK’s ebullient foreign secretary has been a disconcertingly quiet member of Theresa May’s government. His failure to have any impact in one of the great offices of state is not entirely his fault. His job was a trap. In the wake of his failed leadership bid last summer, he had little choice but to accept the offer of a cabinet position. Mrs May’s gamble worked: she carved his job into three, with David Davis handling Europe policy and Liam Fox taking on trade. Mr Johnson has seethed at both his lack of input into the Brexit process, and his diminishing public persona.

That detente is over. His audacious decision to pen a 4,000-odd word opinion piece for the Telegraph can be interpreted in several ways — nearly all of them problematic for Mrs May. It could be a warning shot to Downing Street, reminding the prime minister that he still commands a significant following (albeit one that has been in rapid decline) and that softening Brexit risks fuelling the “Brexit betrayal” narrative. As the person most responsible for the UK’s departure from the bloc, Mr Johnson wants to see his vision fulfilled — including the notorious pledge for £350m for the National Health Service, reiterated in the article.

<Snip>

Or, the intervention could be a prelude to a resignation. As the BBC reported on Friday, Mrs May has yet to square Mr Johnson on elements of her Florence address. According to one Cabinet minister, the foreign secretary has a significant difference of opinion on a transition period. He has been advocating a period of just six months, whereas Mrs May and his fellow ministers envisage two years. "Of all of us around the Cabinet table, Boris was the only one who protested at the length of the transition and he is the most paranoid that Brexit just won't happen" one minister says.

Those close to the prime minister have long thought he might walk away from government at a moment designed to cause maximum damage to the prime minister’s authority. If this is his second (and probably final) bid for the Conservative leadership, he would most likely become the voice of a “no deal” Brexit, arguing that the UK should walk away from the Article 50 negotiating process for leaving the EU because it is a waste of time and focus on new relationships elsewhere.

https://goo.gl/ys4heF

Boris Johnson has unleashed his discontent with Theresa May’s Brexit strategy, undermining the prime minister just days before she prepares to give a key speech in Florence.

In a lengthy article for the Daily Telegraph, Mr Johnson, the UK foreign secretary, roamed far beyond his ministerial portfolio and significantly deviated from the government’s stance on how Britain should leave the EU.

Crucially, he revived the Leave campaign’s pledge to spend up to £350m a week extra on the NHS — a pledge that Mrs May has explicitly rejected. He also warned against Britain paying a substantial exit bill, or continuing payments, to the EU, saying: “We would not expect to pay for access to their markets any more than they would expect to pay for access to ours.”

Will Tanner, who recently left as deputy head of Mrs May’s policy unit, said: “The real PM *just* raised threat level. Meanwhile, guy who wants to replace her issues a prelude to resignation, to save face over £350m.”

The article also suggested that, after Brexit, Britain should discard some environmental and social protections, borrow more to invest in infrastructure, and impose a tax on foreigners buying property. By contrast, Mrs May has said that workers’ rights will be maintained or strengthened, while Michael Gove, the environment secretary, has ruled out lowering environmental standards.

A spokesman for the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said Mr Johnson had “exposed the Tories’ real Brexit agenda — a race-to-the-bottom in regulation and corporate tax cuts”.

[Ignitionnet]

The Chair of the UK Statistics Authority took a moment to remind Boris Johnson that the figure he loves to quote is, as he well knows, misrepresenting official statistics at best.

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....ons-to-the-eu/

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It falls down with the figure for a start. We don't give £350m net to the EU. It's been explained many times but the cloth head has repeated it. He's either very stupid (most likely) or he thinks the British public is.

He definitely gives the impression of thinking the British public are fools. David Davis's unpublished report on 50 industries post-Brexit apparently suggests that any income saved from the EU fees will be spent on unemployment benefits so Boris shouldn't pretend there is a saving!

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

Is Boris up to his old Vote Leave tricks? It certainly looks like it.

Boris Johnson (Daily Telegraph): “. . . once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week. It would be a fine thing, as many of us have pointed out, if a lot of that money went on the NHS . . .”
Sir David Norgrove (letter to Boris Johnson): “I am surprised and disappointed that you have chosen to repeat the figure of £350 million per week, in connection with the amount that might be available for extra public spending when we leave the European Union. This confuses gross and net contributions. It also assumes that payments currently made to the UK by the EU, including for example for the support of agriculture and scientific research, will not be paid by the UK government when we leave. It is a clear misuse of official statistics.”
Foreign Office: “Boris has spoken to Norgrove and he has made clear that he was complaining about the headlines and not Boris’s piece and in fact admitted that Boris’ wording in the piece was absolutely fine.”
UK Statistics Authority: “Sir David Norgrove does not believe the issues lie solely with the headlines . . . He has not changed the conclusion set out in his letter to the Foreign Secretary.”

https://www.ft.com/content/8acfb174-...4-932067fbf946

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

He's not stupid but you're right he thinks we are, for a start he thinks we're dumb enough not to have seen through his act after all this time

But as was proven with Blair, people like actors.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Horizon

But as was proven with Blair, people like actors.

Voters are attracted to charismatic personalities like Blair and BoJo. It's human nature.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The Chair of the UK Statistics Authority took a moment to remind Boris Johnson that the figure he loves to quote is, as he well knows, misrepresenting official statistics at best.

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....ons-to-the-eu/

And that old backstabber Michael Gove has firmly put his support behind Boris's £350 million quote.

---------- Post added at 05:31 ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Voters are attracted to charismatic personalities like Blair and BoJo. It's human nature.

Very swallow if you want my opinion Andrew as although l was not a fan of Maggie at least she did not string a web of lies and deceit unless some modern politicians.