Cant Get Cable? - Maybe We Can Help!

[timacheson]

Originally Posted by weesteev

Its unlikely that Infinity will provide any competition as the vast majority of exchanges being upgraded have little to no Cable access at all.

I don't think I follow what you mean. Can you clarify? My local exchange (Hunsdon) has no cable infrastructure at present.

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

Originally Posted by weesteev

Its unlikely that Infinity will provide any competition as the vast majority of exchanges being upgraded have little to no Cable access at all.

Originally Posted by weesteev

Hi Tim

Its not quite as straight forward as you might think. Firstly, remember Virgin Media is a private company has certain obligations to its shareholders, it currently doesn't have the option of expanding its network as quickly as it would like to.

Small villages are very unlikely to see service from Virgin in the near future, thankfully Ofcom have adjudged that other providers can now access BT's poles and duct's will make it easier for us to distribute in the future but currently we are quite limited to expansion in rural areas due to the immense cost involved.

Rest assured, Virgin aren't ignoring the option of expansion, we are adding 10's of thousands of homes to our network every year and have recently completed major overbuild work in West London where there was previously no digital services.

Hope this helps

Stephen

It's good to know that Virgin are investing in expansion, especially in the South East which is the engine house of the UK economy.

I welcome Ofcom's position, but more is needed. If it costs too much to lay cables, Virgin should seek funding and help (e.g. forcing landowners to help where reasonable) from local and central government.

I don't believe it would be prohibitively expensive to extend cable services to Hunsdon. We're a couple of miles from existing infrastructire. The cost/benefit would not look as good as a more densely populated area, but it would still be profitable. There are 3K to 4K people here. Also, it would also pave the way to further extensions and more customers in the future.

I believe that Virgin has a duty to extend the service to less densely-populated areas where it is feasible, and as the next village along, adjacent to major towns in the area, Hunsdon would be one of the most feasible options among smaller rural villages. You have to start somewhere. Villages like Hunsdon would be a good place to start.

[RobboEdin]

Originally Posted by timacheson

I believe that Virgin has a duty to extend the service to less densely-populated areas where it is feasible, and as the next village along, adjacent to major towns in the area, Hunsdon would be one of the most feasible options among smaller rural villages. You have to start somewhere. Villages like Hunsdon would be a good place to start.

What duty does a private business have to anyone? Their only criterion for investing in expanding their current infrastructure is profit.

[weesteev]

Originally Posted by timacheson

I don't believe it would be prohibitively expensive to extend cable services to Hunsdon. We're a couple of miles from existing infrastructire.

It would be a lot more expensive than you might think

A couple of miles as the crow flies doesn't sound like a lot in the grand scheme of things, but its a very long way when deploying a Telecoms network.

[timacheson]

Originally Posted by RobboEdin

What duty does a private business have to anyone? Their only criterion for investing in expanding their current infrastructure is profit.

There is an onus on private enterprise in various respects, including legal and moral corporate responsibilities. E.g. A corporation cannot discriminate against somebody by refusing service on certain grounds. Private enterprise, in partnership with central and local government, has a duty to ensure that important services are available to people as widely as possible (e.g. rail and bus services, water, telephone, electricity, shops, bank branches) -- even in rural locations where it is not profitable.

I would emphasise that expanding cable services to Hunsdon should be profitable.

Private corporations most certainly can discriminate against you, if they don't believe they can make a profit out of you and in the absence of any regulations that might force them to serve you regardless. And I promise you, there are no such regulations with regards to Virgin Media cabling up small villages.

The universal service obligation rests squarely on BT's shoulders, and at present the service obligation with regard to data speed is (IIRC) a measly 33kbps (possibily even slower). So even BT is already doing more than the minimum you are legally entitled to.

If you believe that your village would be profitable for VM to cable up, then you should prepare a case for them to invest there and take it directly to them. But don't be surprised if they're not interested. Cabling the 50% or so that has already been achieved in the UK brought the entire industry to the brink of financial ruin and it is only now, many years later, that Virgin Media is prepared to even think about expanding its network.

[timacheson]

"Private corporations most certainly can discriminate against you, if they don't believe they can make a profit out of you "

I take your point, of course. Yes. And I choose to take a stand against it. I don't want to bankrupt private enterprise; but I do believe in universal service, within reason.

I want to see close to the whole UK connected with high-speed internet. That's where we should be aiming to be. I think that goal is important and worthwhile for everybody. I won't easily accept that the cost is too high. If the cost is too high, perhaps we're doing it wrong. I advocate common-sense infrastructure in the UK. I've had enough of the stupid old ways, for instance seeng different companies dig the same hole on different days at double the cost and inconvenience, or being told that a huge profitable company like Virgin can't service my village because BT won't let them use their wooden poles.

[RobboEdin]

We obviously disagree on this.

While I respect your 'universal service' panacea, that's simply not going to happen.

You chose village life for a reason and unfortunately fast broadband is unlikely to be on the agenda.

Of course, you have many other delights in your village that we New Town residents will never get.

Tim, I agree - I'm on a rural exchange with fewer than 120 subscribers, on the end of more than 4 miles of copper cable. I would very much like to see high-speed internet for all.

But I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The universal service obligation lies with BT, not with Virgin. Your exchange will be eligible for their 'race to infinity' promotion, provided it has more than 1,000 subs on it. You are more likely to get somewhere if you mount a local campaign to get people to sign up for that.

[paulofwar]

I live in CV22 5az and the main road near me is CV22 5ab has fibre optics.. my road is only 400 yards long in total. I wrote to cablemystreet and got the following response

Hi Paul

Thank you for your correspondence.

To provide our services to your property has costed in at £981.49, this is the price per home and it was based on the 29 homes in your street.

The total cost for us to supply your street is £28,463.15. Our current budget is £300 per home, which would allow us to contribute £8,700 to the cost. If you and all of your neighbours were willing to contribute the difference then the work could be done. This contribution would work out at £681.48 + VAT. The less people interested the more the contribution would be for the remaining interested parties.

As you may appreciate this is very expensive, with the majority of the cost coming from the digging and resurfacing the pavements and pathways.

Please be assured our team have investigated this very thoroughly and will continue to look for other solutions that may help us achieve this in the future.

Best regards

Alison


28,463.15 YEAHHHH RIGHT

You work in roads maintenance then?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

You work in roads maintenance then?

Indeed.

The biggest cost hit on most of the Business circuits i plan is put down to civils.

[paulofwar]

There is no way my tiny street would cost 30 grand to have cable supplied to 29 homes unless the fibers in the cable were constructed of diamond fibers

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by paulofwar

There is no way my tiny street would cost 30 grand to have cable supplied to 29 homes unless the fibers in the cable were constructed of diamond fibers

It is the cost of digging the pavement up including permissions and planning obtained from the council, they cannot just turn and dig holes anywhere which is the reason for the £30,000 cost.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by paulofwar

There is no way my tiny street would cost 30 grand to have cable supplied to 29 homes unless the fibers in the cable were constructed of diamond fibers

Ok if you know so much,

How much per meter for civils construction in the footway ???, Hint you will be installing a 96mm duct and termination points to each house, Paying a construction company and its construction gangs to dig and install and supplying the duct work its self.

Next you have the cabling, How much per meter for coax, how much per meter for 50 pair telco cable, hint you will be paying for the cable pulling, Termination of the cables, E2E testing to specification by the cabling company and there cabling gangs

Then how much for the Cabinets amps and termination points in the cabinet.

Finally cost for the engineers to Install and activate the amps and cpe.


????? So

Originally Posted by paulofwar

There is no way my tiny street would cost 30 grand to have cable supplied to 29 homes unless the fibers in the cable were constructed of diamond fibers

Thank you for avoiding the question.

As you clearly don't work in roads maintenance, you ought to take note of what the other posters are saying here this morning - several of them work for the company so they should know.

And as someone who lives along a non-council road, with a share of the costs of maintaining/repairing it, let me tell you some of the quotes we have seen for re-surfacing down the years have been absolutely eye-watering. And that's for no ducting, fibre or anything, just removing/replacing the surface.