Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

Ah, the old 'ad hominem' attack, when facts fail to support you..

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, the old 'ad hominem' attack, when facts fail to support you..

Is this to me or Marty?

in the voting figures. am I wrong in thinking the total vote who strongly support the 'voluntary' work is 24 people?

Originally Posted by Gary L

I was reading your initial first posts in this thread. I'm wondering what made you change your attitude later on?

you mean the bit where i said i had doubts about companies making excess profits from work experience people and not offering anything in return .Since most companies have backed out that won't happen and since tesco are taking some of the people on as shown in later posts my fears have been alayed ,also ,unlike you ,i have read a lot on the subject since the thread started and realise that the scheme is not realy any different to others that have been around for years

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

As long as it doesn't affect you Marty.

should i find myself needing help from the welfare system in the near future ,which is looking increasingly more likely, i will jump at the chance to do a bit of free work in order to prove i am a reliable choice for any prospective employer ,it will not bother me one jot if it is stacking shelves or doing brain surgery ,i am old enough and wise enough to realise when i am being given a opportunity and will take it without whining about it like a spoilt brat

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

you mean the bit where i said i had doubts about companies making excess profits from work experience people and not offering anything in return .Since most companies have backed out that won't happen and since tesco are taking some of the people on as shown in later posts my fears have been alayed ,

But, then you start throwing words like lazy about when you're talking about those people. when some of them could have been in work for 2 or 3 years and been made unemployed prior to going on this.

then you also have the bit about it being completely voluntary, so why say it's only the people who are scared of losing the freedom they have to sit on the dole with the state paying for everything that object?

why would they be objecting if it's voluntary. if they're on it they only have themselves to blame for volunteering. and if they want to just carry on sitting there, then they wouldn't be stupid enough to volunteer.

the way you're making it sound is that it's mandatory.

also ,unlike you

I think I have read a lot more.
I even read when the DWP said there is no evidence to show that 'work experience' creates jobs.
and that it reduces employment chances by limiting the time available for job search.

Originally Posted by Gary L

But, then you start throwing words like lazy about when you're talking about those people. when some of them could have been in work for 2 or 3 years and been made unemployed prior to going on this.

.

so what's your point ,you will find that the lazy ones are the ones objecting ,the ones who genuinely want work will not object

then you also have the bit about it being completely voluntary, so why say it's only the people who are scared of losing the freedom they have to sit on the dole with the state paying for everything that object?

because there are compulsory schemes out there for those who are long term unemployed .They are the ones who do not show that they are looking for work and they are the ones that will be put on the strictly compulsory work placements or lose benefits ,but you would know all of this if you had read up on the subject as you claim ,or have you only read the bits that back up your view

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

so what's your point ,you will find that the lazy ones are the ones objecting ,the ones who genuinely want work will not object

Are you talking about the mandatory or the voluntary one?
I think it's the former.

because there are compulsory schemes out there for those who are long term unemployed .They are the ones who do not show that they are looking for work and they are the ones that will be put on the strictly compulsory work placements or lose benefits ,but you would know all of this if you had read up on the subject as you claim ,or have you only read the bits that back up your view

I've only read up on the subject were discussing.
the voluntary one. the same one you're replying to.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Are you talking about the mandatory or the voluntary one?
I think it's the former.

.

either ,anyone genuinely wanting to find work will not object to any scheme.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

either ,anyone genuinely wanting to find work will not object to any scheme.

And if they don't. the tax payer should.

Originally Posted by Gary L

And if they don't. the tax payer should.

if who don't ?,
the tax payer should what ?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

if who don't ?,

The unemployed.

the tax payer should what ?

Object to paying taxes to boost companies profits by means of not having to pay to employ someone. by not having to pay overtime to their existing staff.

by making a mockery of the Minimum wage law.

that's just a few.

The only people who benefit are the 'employers' not the 'workers'
oh, and the government. because they've done something about the unemployed having no jobs to find. they found them all one.

Originally Posted by Gary L

The unemployed.



Object to paying taxes to boost companies profits by means of not having to pay to employ someone. by not having to pay overtime to their existing staff.

by making a mockery of the Minimum wage law.

that's just a few.

The ends justify the means ,if the tax payer has to use taxes to send people on work experience schemes so they can gain experience of work which a lot won't have then so be it .

The minimum wage laws don't come into it as the people are not employed they are in reciept of benefits

You must accept gary that work schemes have been around for years ,so why all of a sudden have they caused this problem

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

The ends justify the means ,if the tax payer has to use taxes to send people on work experience schemes so they can gain experience of work which a lot won't have then so be it

You keep moving the goal posts, Marty.

ok, so everyone on the dole now has experience. shall we put them to work in another company to give them even more experience.

now what?
can they all go and get a job tomorrow? are we ok with them now? are we their friends now?

will we set up a crisis fund for companies to help get through the financial loss that they may be suffering from losing free labour?

A cousin of mine has recently been put on this scheme and contarary to what is said on TV and in the media in general he wasn't given a choice he was told "do it or lose your benefit". He is now doing 4 weeks work in the local heart foundation shop with zero chance of a job at the end of it. Now i am not defending him or his position he is a lazy little sod and typifies the saying "you can choose your friends but not family" but there was nothing voluntary about it for him. I am wondering where the actual truth lies in all this as government saying onething to the public that won't be affected by something and then doing something totally different to those who are affected is becoming quite common.

In principle i have no real problem with a proper work experience scheme where there is a real chance of employment at the end of it for those who want it and take the oppurtunity but i am not convinced this is that scheme at the minute.

[borrissey]

It could be a good scheme if they offered say £20 a week on top of your JSA and the figures of people being taking on after the scheme finished were good.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

A cousin of mine has recently been put on this scheme and contarary to what is said on TV and in the media in general he wasn't given a choice he was told "do it or lose your benefit".

That's what a lot of people are saying. that people were forced to do it or else you'll lose your benefit.
some refuse to believe that it was happening, because they hear the government saying "it is voluntary" to the media now.

some people are so gullible. the government can tell them anything and they'll believe it.

I imagine now that all these people know it's officially voluntary. that the take up will decrease rapidly.