Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by edgie

Yep no attacking the man here

l am just saying how it is Sir.

[edgie]

Originally Posted by Chris

Right. So, when Salmond makes an ad hominem attack on David Cameron (and let's not pretend the use of the words "fooling around" and "Eton" are anything else), then it's no consequence, but when someone lays in to Alex Salmond, it's "Playing the man instead of the ball is a sure sign that you are losing the argument".

I'm glad we've established your double standards within 60 minutes of you joining this discussion. What were you saying earlier about laughing at rubbish?

As for "separatist": Yes. I prefer to call a spade a spade. I reject the SNP's attempt to frame this as a nationalist issue; I know plenty of Scottish-born people who are extremely proud of their nation and wish to see that nation flourish, but who reject separatism as the means by which it might flourish.

Separatism is one possible expression of nationalism and is the one the SNP is peddling. And, for the very many reasons we have gone over, and over, and over, in this thread, separatism is a pig in a poke.

No double standards as i said I care not about the politicians
They will twist their arguments and select facts to suit them self’s as that’s how politicians work. I have my opinion, which I haven’t given yet, based on an emotional and a practical fact based argument.

As to your comment “Scottish born “ why is a birth location an issue in this debate on either side, if come 18 September you are living in Scotland and eligible to vote that’s the issue. Are you suggesting we should limit the vote only to those born in Scotland??

And of course it’s a nationalist issue; the democratic vote of the Scottish nation is what will decide this one way or the other.

Originally Posted by edgie

No double standards as i said I care not about the politicians
They will twist their arguments and select facts to suit them self’s as that’s how politicians work. I have my opinion, which I haven’t given yet, based on an emotional and a practical fact based argument.

As to your comment “Scottish born “ why is a birth location an issue in this debate on either side, if come 18 September you are living in Scotland and eligible to vote that’s the issue. Are you suggesting we should limit the vote only to those born in Scotland??

And of course it’s a nationalist issue; the democratic vote of the Scottish nation is what will decide this one way or the other.

"Scottish born", because no matter how much I may love Scotland, I think someone who was actually born here has a better handle on how nationalism may be expressed. I can observe how Scottish people express their nationalism and relate it here, but as I am not Scottish, and there is no legal means by which I could become so (had I wanted to - which I don't), then that provides useful context for anything I might say about Scottish nationalism.

I am English, I live in Scotland, I have a vote, and I will vote in September on whether I think Scotland is better off taking full control of all the levers of government, or whether it is better remaining in a union with the other home nations which currently share much of that as one nation state called the UK.

As things stand, while I can intellectually conceive of circumstances under which Scotland would be better off separating from the UK, I believe those circumstances are a long way from the actual reality of 2014.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by edgie

As some one who has read what gets posted here and laughed as some of the rubbish
i thought i would join and point out that rightly or wrongly Gordon brown is still well thought of in Scotland

and the demonizing of Alex is actually quite funny if it wasn’t so sad, To personalize this decision on either side to alex Salmond is both insulting to the voters and plainly stupid.
A lot of YES voters despise the man, and NO voters think he is the best politician in the UK at the moment.

This vote is NOT about Salmond, or the SNP, its about a long term future for Scotland

That point has already been made and it may be true but I was stating my opinion not Scotland's and around these parts Brown is certainly not well thought of which is why he got the boot at the first opportunity.

As for demonising Salmond well you get as good as you give. Salmond's a big boy now and evidently doesn't mind a bit of derogatory name calling so it's only fair that he receives some in return.

[Derek]

Hot on the heels of threatening to walk away from any share of the UKs debt and proving once again that he really understands how diplomacy works Emperor-in-waiting Salmond has come up with a master plan to ensure EU entry.

Basically it's let us in or we will blockade fishing grounds and access to other countries fishing grounds.

European fishing fleets could be denied access to Scottish waters if SNP plans to retain EU membership after independence are rejected, Alex Salmond has warned.

The First Minister said a dozen countries may be barred from entering Scotland's seas and would not even be allowed to pass through to reach Norwegian waters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...embership.html

Eck and whose navy?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chris

Eck and whose navy?

All those submarines stationed at Faslane... Oh....

I'm still waiting to hear who he thinks would man his patrol vessels and skiddly second-hand T55s, given that he can't simply lay claim to an 8% share of the personnel of the UK armed forces. No man or woman can have their service transferred to a foreign country as if it were a football transfer. If they don't want to go, nobody can make them.

I'm definitely going to Armed Forces Day this year, it will be great to see our service people showing off their stuff and also quite amusing to see how many people aren't down the road in a muddy field by Bannock Burn, pining after a 700-year-old medieval dynastic squabble.

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm still waiting to hear who he thinks would man his patrol vessels and skiddly second-hand T55s, given that he can't simply lay claim to an 8% share of the personnel of the UK armed forces. No man or woman can have their service transferred to a foreign country as if it were a football transfer. If they don't want to go, nobody can make them.

I'm definitely going to Armed Forces Day this year, it will be great to see our service people showing off their stuff and also quite amusing to see how many people aren't down the road in a muddy field by Bannock Burn, pining after a 700-year-old medieval dynastic squabble.

Presumably they'll take the Scottish units?

But they can't, can they? They can negotiate a share of the hardware assets, but they could not compel any serviceman or woman to join or remain with the military of a country foreign to the one they signed up for.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek

Hot on the heels of threatening to walk away from any share of the UKs debt and proving once again that he really understands how diplomacy works Emperor-in-waiting Salmond has come up with a master plan to ensure EU entry.

Basically it's let us in or we will blockade fishing grounds and access to other countries fishing grounds.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...embership.html

There was I thinking that Salmond had been giving the impression that EU membership was a shoo-in for Scotland.

Originally Posted by Osem

There was I thinking that Salmond had been giving the impression that EU membership was a shoo-in for Scotland.

You forget, "Constructive, enthusiastic" is Natspeak for "Here is a list of our demands ... Or else."

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nashville

Pierre What have the Scots or Welsh done to you or Cornish people

In reference to what?

[Qtx]

Originally Posted by Chris

I can observe how Scottish people express their nationalism and relate it here

By supporting Celtic or Rangers?

[Mr Pharmacist]

From Private Eye