30M : Really rubbish connection. India says everything's ok

[Chrysalis]

VM are in a trap of a false economy and have whats known as failure demand.

In summary the offshore staff have lower per hour costs etc.

However due to customers needing to ring back after a failure to have the problem resolved adds demand to the system so VM's call centre demand is higher as a result of failure, which in turn actually increases costs.

Meanwhile the people who will have decided on the outsourcing likely have to do what masque said with massaging figures etc. to make their original decision seem right.

A economics expert did a lecture on this a few years back.

However looking at VMs recent history VM probably know this but have chosen this path. As they dont have failure demand just for the india reps its also for things like not fixing congestion meaning people will ring back again and again and VM have decided to chew up the costs of manning phones and dishing out compensation instead of cuting back on reasons for people to call.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Nopanic

You've missed my point.

I did not as the Albert Dock was always going to close even if they shut down India as the costs did not help even though we were better than offshore.

A team of people in the higher echelons of Virgin Media have done a deal for offshore and now realise they are stuck with a turkey so they are using other means to polish the dog dirt, but no matter how much you polish dog dirt it will always be dog dirt.

[Nopanic]

Originally Posted by Peter_

I did not as the Albert Dock was always going to close even if they shut down India as the costs did not help even though we were better than offshore.
[/IMG]

No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.

You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.

The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Nopanic

No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.

You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.

The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.

no it would be for the CEO so he things the guy who came up with the offshore brainwave has done a good job. possibly also helps justify it to shareholders.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Nopanic

No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.

You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.
The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.

I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.

Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.

VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).

But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.

Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.

VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).

But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.

Quite right and obvious for anyone who remained a subscriber for a reasonable period of time.

[Nopanic]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

no it would be for the CEO so he things the guy who came up with the offshore brainwave has done a good job. possibly also helps justify it to shareholders.

But that would suggest a whole department are being told to change things? Surely that would get out ?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.

Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.

VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).

But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.

I'm giving my opinion here remember and it's not emotional it's customer experience, economical, etc. The jobs where UK based and removing them but keeping off shore happened regardless of public opinion. Suggesting to me budget before experience .. Although I don't have any figures or insider knowledge.

I don't believe any stats are being changed and I know VM are very much interested in customer opinion. I remember the hoops I had to jump through when I worked with customers. Although a long time ago.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.

All to true. Sadly though, very few people are going to leave VM out of principle and maybe pay more on another provider. At the end of the day though we always say money talks and because of the bundles VM offer they know/think nobody is going to leave them £££ is more important to them so they think it gives them a license to get away with crap.

I am hoping that now BT is catching up, and hopefully soon overtake them, they'll be forced to focus on customer service and not just price if they want to set themselves apart.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Nopanic

No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.

You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.

The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.

They know how much customers hater Indian call centres and considering the amount of money invested over there they have to show reasons for keeping them to the shareholders so excellent NPS is one way of doing that even if the figures are unreal and only exist in someones imagination.

Now you can continue to believe that the sun shines down on the Indian call centres and that every NPS received for them is a perfect 10 hence the high scores.

I remember a year or so back an Indian agent allegedly scored 70 perfect NPS so the company as a prize brought him to the UK to tour the call centres, part of his visit was to sit with agents and take calls to show off his skills, guess what he did not have a clue and that quickly spread around the centre.

One agent even fed back on him to his manager but you must know that none of the feedback generated against offshore agents ever leaves our shores so the agent blissfully carries on giving the same rubbish service to the customers.

When you really think about you come to realise that all Virgin Media are interested in is its image and not its customers, so you will all continue to receive the same level of support and customer service from an offshore agent that you all expect which is to say the least dismal and that the company will continue to turn a blind eye to any complaints just like the three wise monkeys.

I will stay a customer due to the fact I will get less than 1.5Mb with an ADSL line and I hate BT so the is no alternative even if Ifinity arrived here.

[Nopanic]

Originally Posted by Peter_

They know how much customers hater Indian call centres and considering the amount of money invested over there they have to show reasons for keeping them to the shareholders so excellent NPS is one way of doing that even if the figures are unreal and only exist in someones imagination.

Now you can continue to believe that the sun shines down on the Indian call centres and that every NPS received for them is a perfect 10 hence the high scores.

I remember a year or so back an Indian agent allegedly scored 70 perfect NPS so the company as a prize brought him to the UK to tour the call centres, part of his visit was to sit with agents and take calls to show off his skills, guess what he did not have a clue and that quickly spread around the centre.

One agent even fed back on him to his manager but you must know that none of the feedback generated against offshore agents ever leaves our shores so the agent blissfully carries on giving the same rubbish service to the customers.

When you really think about you come to realise that all Virgin Media are interested in is its image and not its customers, so you will all continue to receive the same level of support and customer service from an offshore agent that you all expect which is to say the least dismal and that the company will continue to turn a blind eye to any complaints just like the three wise monkeys.

I will stay a customer due to the fact I will get less than 1.5Mb with an ADSL line and I hate BT so the is no alternative even if Ifinity arrived here.

Indian are awesome, I personally think they should replace all UK centres with Indian centres.

Maybe you'll use your awesome ability to ignore a post and reply with comments that have no relevance to the point being made and I'll finally get through, saying the opposite to what I have been.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Nopanic

Indian are awesome, I personally think they should replace all UK centres with Indian centres.

Maybe you'll use your awesome ability to ignore a post and reply with comments that have no relevance to the point being made and I'll finally get through, saying the opposite to what I have been.

The point being made is that India are shocking and beyond contempt but Virgin Media just do the 3 wise monkeys impression and continue to argue the point that that are brilliant, if they are so good they should put their money where their mouth is and move every call centre offshore, then the dog dirt would really hit the fan.

You may think otherwise and you are one of the few even amongst Virgin media employees who believe that figures cannot be massaged to make dog droppings appear to be the best chocolate to come out of Switzerland, but a single taste tells you it is dog droppings.

Until the company holds up it hands and admits to India being a failure customers will have a very hard job trusting an Indian agent, many people just hang up when they hear an Indian voice which adds to the offshore call times being low and could well account for many NPS going to them in error.

[Nopanic]

[qasdfdsaq]

Gigidy.

[General Maximus]

this is turning into one of those carlwaring threads. Can we just agree that India are pants, everyone hates them and leave it at that.

Sounds like a master plan to me