Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20-10-2016, 19:25   #91
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB V+ STB
Posts: 4,014
nomadking has reached the bronze age
nomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze age
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
You are correct, but the rules regarding speed, manner, pain etc are often overlooked by the private companies whose sole aim is to make money out of these assessments.

This is why I think that this function should not be completely outsourced and why so many appeals are successful.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------



As a former Decision Maker, I can say that you have hit the nail on the head (although staff cuts have played their part too).

This attitude also appears to be being taken by the banks ie just say no and let the Ombudsman decide.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------



ESA is now a totally different animal to the one introduced by Labour.
How would they make more money from the assessments?

If the problems have existed BEFORE any staff cuts, then staff cuts can't be to blame.

The changes were suggested in 2009, "Work Capability Review, October 2009". Eg Changing from walking to mobilising, therefore including wheelchair use is there.

Last edited by nomadking; 20-10-2016 at 19:45.
nomadking is online now   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 20-10-2016, 21:23   #92
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,498
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How would they make more money from the assessments?

If the problems have existed BEFORE any staff cuts, then staff cuts can't be to blame.

The changes were suggested in 2009, "Work Capability Review, October 2009". Eg Changing from walking to mobilising, therefore including wheelchair use is there.
They rush through them, enabling them to carry out more assessments in order to get more money.

There have been cases where assessments have inappropriately been done over the phone or not at all and been claimed for as face to face assessments.

One nurse was even drunk at work and another thought it appropriate to start slagging off claimants by saying they were lazy and taking their disabilities. After complaints and pressure, both were dismissed.

There are certainly staff problems and there has been ever since the days of Supplementary Benefit in the sixties.

There's an excellent book about this called 'DHSS In Crisis".
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2016, 21:35   #93
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB V+ STB
Posts: 4,014
nomadking has reached the bronze age
nomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze age
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
They rush through them, enabling them to carry out more assessments in order to get more money.

There have been cases where assessments have inappropriately been done over the phone or not at all and been claimed for as face to face assessments.

One nurse was even drunk at work and another thought it appropriate to start slagging off claimants by saying they were lazy and taking their disabilities. After complaints and pressure, both were dismissed.

There are certainly staff problems and there has been ever since the days of Supplementary Benefit in the sixties.

There's an excellent book about this called 'DHSS In Crisis".
Ever heard of the expression, "One swallow does not a summer make"?
nomadking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2016, 22:42   #94
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,498
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Ever heard of the expression, "One swallow does not a summer make"?
These are not isolated cases.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2016, 22:48   #95
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 61
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 30,514
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
These are not isolated cases.
In January this year, there were 2,485,000 ESA/Disabilty Benefits claimants.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...y-mar-2016.pdf

Even if there were 1,000 of these cases (and no one has provided any evidence to support a figure that high), that would be 1 in nearly 2,500 claimants, so statistically, they are isolated cases...
__________________
The Dunning-Kruger effect - it explains so much....

If my post is in bold, it's a moderating decision - if not, it's not.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2016, 23:13   #96
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB V+ STB
Posts: 4,014
nomadking has reached the bronze age
nomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze agenomadking has reached the bronze age
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
In January this year, there were 2,485,000 ESA/Disabilty Benefits claimants.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...y-mar-2016.pdf

Even if there were 1,000 of these cases (and no one has provided any evidence to support a figure that high), that would be 1 in nearly 2,500 claimants, so statistically, they are isolated cases...
You gave examples of the alleged behaviour of individuals. Whatever the behaviour of an individual, ultimately others are involved at one stage or another. You have the assessor, the original decision maker, reconsideration decision maker, and other decision makers involved in the appeal process.

Last edited by nomadking; 21-10-2016 at 23:37.
nomadking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 01:13   #97
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,498
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Some further reading here:

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com...r-documentary/

---------- Post added at 00:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
In January this year, there were 2,485,000 ESA/Disabilty Benefits claimants.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...y-mar-2016.pdf

Even if there were 1,000 of these cases (and no one has provided any evidence to support a figure that high), that would be 1 in nearly 2,500 claimants, so statistically, they are isolated cases...
Last January, The National Audit Office stated that 36% of Capita reports were below standard.

No matter what the figures involved are, this sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/0...ing-claimants/

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 22-10-2016 at 01:18.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 09:58   #98
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 61
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 30,514
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Totally agree that sort of behaviour is unacceptable, but it is not the norm.

And Capita (and others) need to improve the quality of their assessors reports, but one should not conflate that with the first issue.

btw, it was contractual standards, not quality standards - that was around 10% (still too high).

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...ssessments.pdf

Quote:
Report quality does not necessarily affect the bene t decisions made by the Department, and reports can be graded as below standard for errors in spelling and grammar. One provider also raised concerns that there could be inconsistencies
in approach and that it may not be appropriate to compare performance between providers. The Department also uses another measure of quality: the proportion of assessments returned to providers as not t for purpose. On this measure providers have performed well against targets (Figure 5a on pages 22 and 23). The Department and providers have recently developed a new audit approach which aims to improve measurement of quality and support decision-making. One of the providers told us it had already completed IT changes in December 2015 to support new performance management arrangements.
__________________
The Dunning-Kruger effect - it explains so much....

If my post is in bold, it's a moderating decision - if not, it's not.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 11:35   #99
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 61
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 7,603
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I had a phonecall at 8:40 this morning ref the lad's PIP claim.

Their records showed that we do not live at the same address.

Uh, nope, we have lived together as a family for the past 25 years.

This does not bode well......
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 17:30   #100
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,498
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Possibly some inexperienced member of staff not knowing how to read the screens properly.

A carer is not required to live with the person they care for anyway.

If the system had of held an incorrect address for 25 years, it would have been picked up by one of the computer record data matching excercises.

This is where benefit claims are compared to public and private information to detect and prevent fraud eg if you tell TV licensing that you've moved, but not the DWP, it will be picked up.

If you apply for a loan and say that you live with a partner, yet are claiming benefits as a single person, this will be picked up.

Records are checked with universities to find any benefits claimants who haven't declared this etc etc.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 17:51   #101
dilli-theclaw
3xCABG
 
dilli-theclaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Near Sandy Heath transmitter
Services: BT
Posts: 19,332
dilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden aura
dilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden aura
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I still have trouble getting the dwp to send me letters in he right format - I just don't trust them one bit.
__________________
The list of tools[K, RC, GL, M, M]
dilli-theclaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 18:36   #102
denphone
Still alive and happy
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 44,955
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw View Post
I still have trouble getting the dwp to send me letters in he right format - I just don't trust them one bit.
Sorry to hear about that dilli but alas l cannot say l am surprised.

Have you received your PIP letter yet? as in the next 2 years they will be contacting those who were awarded DLA indefinitely.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2016, 18:39   #103
dilli-theclaw
3xCABG
 
dilli-theclaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Near Sandy Heath transmitter
Services: BT
Posts: 19,332
dilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden aura
dilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden auradilli-theclaw has a golden aura
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Sorry to hear about that dilli but alas l cannot say l am surprised.

Have you received your PIP letter yet? as in the next 2 years they will be contacting those who were awarded DLA indefinitely.
Not yet, soon enough I bet.
__________________
The list of tools[K, RC, GL, M, M]
dilli-theclaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 00:06   #104
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,498
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw View Post
I still have trouble getting the dwp to send me letters in he right format - I just don't trust them one bit.
If they don't take your disability needs into account by failing to make the required adjustments, you can use the 2010 Equalities Act to force them.

If you need any help in doing this, the Equalities & Human Rights Commission can help you. I'm pretty sure that the RNIB will have people experienced in this area too.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2016, 03:36   #105
Chrysalis
VMNG300 RIP!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Leics
Age: 38
Services: *-Sky 80/20-*
Posts: 11,834
Chrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze array
Chrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze arrayChrysalis has a bronze array
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
But do you really know the way the rules are meant to be applied or are you "listening" to the myths, which are usually at best, an incomplete explanation of the rules. Eg There's a lot more to mobilizing than being able to go a certain distance.
It is in the DWP handbook that they are now to assume people have aid's regardless if they actually have the aid's or not. They are also supposed to exempt people from the aid's check tho if they provide proof of good reasoning to not be using such aids, such as medical reasons or unsuitability where they live, however these exemptions are for the most part not been made hence one of the reasons the DWP is losing so many tribunal cases.

One would think the DWP and NHS talk to each other, e.g. to see if someone claiming to have a problem has even seen their GP about it (shockingly these kind of checks are typically not made). Another reasoning been if a DWP assessor says person A can mobilise with X set of aid's then it should be logical a letter goes out to the NHS to supply these aid's, however nothing of the sort happens. The aid thing is a pretty dangerous game they playing e.g. I have many doctor's and physios tell me a wheelchair is a last resort as it effectively sets your body to rot always been in a sitting position, the NHS pushes hard for people to exercise as much as possible and they dont want people to be in a wheelchair unless they have no ability to mobilise at all without one, even if someone can walk say 5 metres, that may be enough for doctor's to avoid a wheelchair. However the DWP work on an opposite ideology where they think everyone who has walking problems, should be using wheelchairs. When a tribunal is faced with this conundrum they should side with the NHS doctors which I believe is what typically happens but even with all these lost cases the DWP persist with their policies.
Chrysalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:55.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.