Crisis in the NHS

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes, seems to have worked over the last 7 years. Targets increasingly being missed everywhere, cancer survival rates the worst in western Europe and a recruitment crisis for nurses and doctors. If anybody thinks the NHS will exist after another 5 years they are deluded. Vote Tory by all means but if you and your family really need the NHS in future you'll only have yourself to blame when it fails to deliver.

And all that didn't also happen under Labour?

Any recruitment crisis is a worldwide one. The wealthier countries import staff.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And all that didn't also happen under Labour?

Any recruitment crisis is a worldwide one. The wealthier countries import staff.

Not really, no.

It's worse in this country under this Govt. e.g. 6,700 mental health staff have been culled since the Tories came to power in 2010. The Govts. refusal to safeguard EU citizens also means EU staff are leaving in droves.

"culled".

You win today's prize for most inappropriately emotive word....

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"culled".

You win today's prize for most inappropriately emotive word....

"sacked" if you prefer Hugh. All means the same to patients not getting the care they need.

Sacked - really?

Or were staff who left not replaced?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

"sacked" if you prefer Hugh. All means the same to patients not getting the care they need.

Efficiency savings they say my dear man or depending on ones political persuasion a plethora of other labels..

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-conten...ote-090516.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35857815

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Not really, no.

It's worse in this country under this Govt. e.g. 6,700 mental health staff have been culled since the Tories came to power in 2010. The Govts. refusal to safeguard EU citizens also means EU staff are leaving in droves.

And how many were "culled" under Labour? Labour cut the number of mental health beds by 28% from 1997 to 2008(36,601 to 26,430). Overall they cut beds by 17.5% across the NHS etc.

Are EU staff leaving in "droves"? Why should they? They don't know the final situation yet, and at worst will be in the same position as the MANY non-EU staff already here.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Sacked - really?

Or were staff who left not replaced?

6700 not 'replaced' if you like.

Forerunner for the rest of the health service given the vast numbers of vacancies atm. Really struggle to see what the aim of the Tories is. Removing bursaries from student nurses is really going to help (not). Even if it's to privatise do they really need to run it into the ground first?. Jeremy Hunt seems to have kept a very low profile over the last month...

Originally Posted by Mr K

6700 not 'replaced' if you like.

Forerunner for the rest of the health service given the vast numbers of vacancies atm. Really struggle to see what the aim of the Tories is. Removing bursaries from student nurses is really going to help (not). Even if it's to privatise do they really need to run it into the ground first?. Jeremy Hunt seems to have kept a very low profile over the last month...

Well, that's a helluva U-turn from your first two shots at it.

There's a enormous difference in being sacked/culled and and not having the job in the first place - but you knew that, anyway, but went for the cheap shot.....

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, that's a helluva U-turn from your first two shots at it.

There's a enormous difference in being sacked/culled and and not having the job in the first place - but you knew that, anyway, but went for the cheap shot...

6700 posts slashed and Mr K is the one taking cheap shots

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

6700 posts slashed and Mr K is the one taking cheap shots

If he had said that in the first place, I would have agreed with him - it's wrong that this happened.

But he misrepresented the fact that no one had actually lost their job - he actually said "sacked", which is not true.

There's enough negative things been done by various parties/governments, without having to make stuff up, which weakens the argument when it is shown to be false (there's been a lot of this on Social Media in the last week, with anti-Conservative memes about Lincs Tories and a non-existent MP saying things).

If the facts are enough to help you win, you have morally lost anyway (whichever side you're on).

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes, seems to have worked over the last 7 years. Targets increasingly being missed everywhere, cancer survival rates the worst in western Europe and a recruitment crisis for nurses and doctors. If anybody thinks the NHS will exist after another 5 years they are deluded. Vote Tory by all means but if you and your family really need the NHS in future you'll only have yourself to blame when it fails to deliver.

So, how would electing Labour help? They were going to put in less money than the Conservatives have done!

The comparisons lefties make between how the two parties approach the NHS is completely delusional. It is the CONSERVATIVES who are pumping more money in while trying to bring efficiency and modernisation to the NHS, it was LABOUR who were responsible for most of the privatisation that has taken place in the NHS through the PFI initiatives and it was LABOUR who presided over the drinking out of vases by patients not being looked after properly at Mid Staffordshire Hospital, and actually tried to cover it up rather than address it.

You'd think it was the other way around to hear some of them spout forth in the election campaign.

If Corbyn is promising more money for the NHS now, he's got to get the money first, and we will not see any efficiencies introduced. If that happens, the NHS will surely crumble before our eyes because he will simply run out of money. His economic plan wouldn't even make sense in a Jack and Jill book.

Corbyn has proved himself to be a brilliant illusionist, but it really is all smoke and mirrors, folks!

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Not really, no.

It's worse in this country under this Govt. e.g. 6,700 mental health staff have been culled since the Tories came to power in 2010. The Govts. refusal to safeguard EU citizens also means EU staff are leaving in droves.

No, they haven't been culled or sacked, but it is true that posts have been cut to make the books balance. Presumably, you do remember the banking crisis over which Labour presided. The words 'chickens' and 'roost' come to mind.

As for EU citizens, the Government has already suggested that EU citizens over here and UK citizens in the EU are protected but the EU have refused to play ball on that one.

I'm afraid that Corbyn's way would succeed in protecting EU citizens over here, but would fail to address UK citizens over there! What kind of deal is that? The Conservatives aim to protect all 4,000 whereas Corbyn seems to think that protecting only 3,000 is a good deal!

Heaven help us all if he is elected to negotiate with these EU nasties.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, that's a helluva U-turn from your first two shots at it.

There's a enormous difference in being sacked/culled and and not having the job in the first place - but you knew that, anyway, but went for the cheap shot.....

think you're trying to play your usual word semantics to divert from the real issue Hugh. Are you happy and proud that the party you support has overseen 6,700 jobs in mental health going?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

think you're trying to play your usual word semantics to divert from the real issue Hugh. Are you happy and proud that the party you support has overseen 6,700 jobs in mental health going?

Both parties should hang their head in shame at the state of mental health currently in this country as they are both culpable IMO.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Both parties should hang their head in shame at the state of mental health currently in this country as they are both culpable IMO.

But it is Theresa May's initiative to improve mental health, not Jeremy Corbyn, although he might wish to jump on the bandwagon now so he doesn't look so bad, a feat though that would be.