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2 accounts in to 1 at new house
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Old 31-01-2011, 14:53   #1
Tortoisebex
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2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Hi All

Im really after advice as have not had any help with calling 150,

I am soon moving in with a work colleuge, we both currently have flats with our own Virgin media packages.. Cause of rising costs etc we have decided to rent a house together...

But when i called Virgin they said we only had 2 options - take both the accounts to the new house or pay 151 for a early disconnection.... which i thought was not very helpful.

I have been a VM cistomer for a time now, but when i moved to my flat 4 months ago they started a new contract. similary my collegue has a new contract as VM did a change of ownership and started a new contract when her old housemate moved out.

I really dont think having 2 small packages in the same house is a good solution, we are happy to take out a XL package etc to make the cost similar to what the 2 small ones would have been. But we have been told we cant do this...

Does anyone have any ideas? Also is it true that you cant actually have 2 accounts at the same property?
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Old 31-01-2011, 14:55   #2
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Although I appreciate it's a unfortunate situation, the options provided by Virgin are in line with the Terms and Conditions of service

http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff/terms-​and-conditions-for-cable-services.html#home

K2. If you move to another address during any minimum period paragraph J2 will apply, unless you continue to receive Virgin Media Ltd and/or Virgin Media Entertainment services at your new address (in which case paragraph K3 will apply).

J2 states that an Early Disconnection Fee is payable if services are disconnected within a minimum term

Also, you can have two accounts in the same address
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Old 31-01-2011, 23:11   #3
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

However you DO have a ruther cheaky way of getting out of your contract without paying an early termination fee.

Your most recent bill would have increased this month due to the VAT increase. VirginMedia's TOS entitle you to cancil your contract AT NO CHARGE to yourself IF they increase the cost of you bill. While VM are not responsiable for the VAT increase it has had the affect of increasing your monthly subscription thus allowing you to council your contract under their terms.

For reference the terms of VM's contract needed for this are

F1
Quote:
You must pay the charges for the services as set out in Virgin Media Ltd's and/or Virgin Media Entertainment's price guides or as otherwise notified to you, together with any applicable value added tax or other applicable taxes. We and/or Virgin Media Entertainment can change the charges as set out in paragraph H3, but if we do so, this may entitle you to end these agreements. You can read more about this in paragraph J5. All payments by you should be made to Virgin Media Payments, which will provide you with all necessary payment handling services for both Virgin Media Ltd and Virgin Media Entertainment. Virgin Media Payments agrees to collect and process all payments made by you to it promptly and ensure that they are applied in settlement of the charges to which they relate. Virgin Media Payments may charge you a separate service fee for collecting and processing such payments as provided in paragraph F4(c) below.
and

J5
Quote:
a. Virgin Media Ltd, Virgin Media Entertainment and/or Virgin Media Payments increase their respective charges under these agreements;
b. Virgin Media Ltd and/or Virgin Media Entertainment make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
c. Virgin Media Ltd, Virgin Media Entertainment and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the terms and conditions of these agreements (including the other legal stuff).
You may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving Virgin Media Ltd and/or Virgin Media Entertainment (as applicable) at least 30 days' notice in writing. Such notice must be given within 30 days of the increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you. If you were not notified of these changes in advance, you must give notice of cancellation of the services affected to Virgin Media Ltd and/or Virgin Media Entertainment (as applicable) within 30 days of receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges. If you do not give notice of cancellation within the specified period, you will be deemed to have accepted the increase in charges and/or the changes to the services and these agreements. You will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph. If you cancel any services in these circumstances, the increased charges will not apply to those services during the 30-day notice period and paragraph J2 will not apply if you cancel before the end of the minimum period.
Though you ONLY have 30 days from the date of your first 20% bill (assuming they havent pre notifyed you, i know VM havent notifyed me of the increase).

VM's TOS can bee found here http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-lega...-services.html

As i said its cheaky but if you get nothing but "computer says no" from VM staff then i would strogly suggest you use this option.
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Old 31-01-2011, 23:16   #4
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

I think this little section may prevent that.

[/QUOTE]this may entitle you to end these agreements[/QUOTE]
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Old 31-01-2011, 23:36   #5
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Masque

you refer to the MAY in F5 that "may" simply refers you to the limitors set out in J5.

Quote:
this may entitle you to end these agreements. You can read more about this in paragraph J5
in this case limitor J5a give him cause to cancel the agreement
Quote:
Originally Posted by J5a
a. Virgin Media Ltd, Virgin Media Entertainment and/or Virgin Media Payments increase their respective charges under these agreements;
you may (as in your choise) cancel those services affected without penalty by.....
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Old 31-01-2011, 23:41   #6
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman View Post
Masque

you refer to the MAY in F5 that "may" simply refers you to the limitors set out in J1.



in this case limitor J1a give him cause to cancel the agreement


you may (as in your choise) cancel those services affected without penalty by.....
The reason that is their is so they can use it to bring in the Early Disconnection Fees, it just depends how the account is viewed.

Plus if a payment has been made after the rise that includes the new VAT rate that can be classed as acceptance of the increase.

Not saying I am right just being Devils Advocate.
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Old 31-01-2011, 23:49   #7
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque View Post
The reason that is their is so they can use it to bring in the Early Disconnection Fees, it just depends how the account is viewed.

Plus if a payment has been made after the rise that includes the new VAT rate that can be classed as acceptance of the increase.

Not saying I am right just being Devils Advocate.
As i said the terms are quite clearly stated in that the may in F1 refersyou to the limitors in J5, so if you meet any of the 3 limitors (increase in charge (J5a) reduction of services(J5b), or change of TOS (J5c)) then you have the right to cancel.

as for payment beeing acceptance of the terms J5 clearly says that aint so...

Quote:
Such notice must be given within 30 days of the increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you.
Your charges dont increase untill you get told they've increased (ie your monthly bill). So you have 30 days FROM receipt of your monthly bill (assuming VM hasnt pre-notifyed you). 30 days from receipt would usually include a payment cycle.

and i ejoy playing Devils Advocate too, thats the only reason im posting this :P
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Old 01-02-2011, 00:07   #8
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

We all knew all prices were going up though as it has been on the statute books for months and this covers everything not just broadband.
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Old 01-02-2011, 00:12   #9
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque View Post
We all knew all prices were going up though as it has been on the statute books for months and this covers everything not just broadband.
i dont disagree with this however as the contract states VM have a duty to notify us of this and give us 30 days to leave.

VM knew full well that the prices were going to go up before the OP signed his contact but still told him he would pay xx per month (not xx per month till january then xy). im aware the op isnt making a complaint about this particlar point im just offering it as an "out".of cause IF they did tell him of the increase when he signed the contract then he coulnt use this option.

For all we as the end consumer knew VM may have intended to swallow the VAT increase like MANY companys have. So the fact that the increase was brought upon by government policy as appose to a VM supplyer upping their prices makeslittle difference to VM's oblication.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:46   #10
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

But the problem surely is this:

The get out clause states "a. Virgin Media Ltd, Virgin Media Entertainment and/or Virgin Media Payments increase their respective charges under these agreements;"

But VM HAVE NOT increased THEIR charges have they?

HM Gov have increased theirs and VM are basically just a collection agent for the chancellor.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:50   #11
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Yes VM has increased their charge. The way VAT works is the end consumer dosnt pay HM gov the charge, they pay their supplyer who in turn pays the charge. So what VM charge you has increased.

The VAT increase is no different then if one of VM's supplyers increased the cost to VM which VM in turn passed onto the end user.

Remember in this country (unlike say the US) the end user pays a VAT inclusive charge not a charge "plus tax". Meaning VAT is a charge pays BY the supplier and NOT the end user. The only exeption to this is B2B sales where prices are plus tax (so the same out woulnt work on VM business)
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:18   #12
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

I would point out that the disconnection part of the contract allow you to disconnect only the affected service without pentalty

so if the phonline has gone up, but broadband hasn't then you can't cancel broadband without an EDF
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:28   #13
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman View Post
Yes VM has increased their charge. The way VAT works is the end consumer dosnt pay HM gov the charge, they pay their supplyer who in turn pays the charge. So what VM charge you has increased.

The VAT increase is no different then if one of VM's supplyers increased the cost to VM which VM in turn passed onto the end user.

Remember in this country (unlike say the US) the end user pays a VAT inclusive charge not a charge "plus tax". Meaning VAT is a charge pays BY the supplier and NOT the end user. The only exeption to this is B2B sales where prices are plus tax (so the same out woulnt work on VM business)
So if a supplier pays the charge and not the consumer then why is it separate on the bill??

I disagree 100% i am afraid, suppliers are not charging you anymore for your service charges, you will see this on your bill.
You are simply paying an increase in VAT which is a government tax.

Can you imagine the the chaos if this were possible, people would use this to extract them from all manner of contracts.


EDIT:

A quick google on consumer websites will back me up.......many people are asking similar questions on similar products

http://www.mobilechoices.co.uk/vat-r...one-bills.html


Also, you will notice that in the T&Cs VM seperate their charges and VAT:

"You must pay the charges for the services as set out in Virgin Media Ltd's and/or Virgin Media Entertainment's price guides or as otherwise notified to you, together with any applicable value added tax or other applicable taxes"

So can you point out where VM have increased their service charges BEFORE the application of VAT, for which they have no choice?
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Old 02-02-2011, 14:13   #14
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

Suggest this thread now moves to the Billing section?
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Old 26-02-2011, 23:32   #15
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Re: 2 accounts in to 1 at new house

ooo i thought i would update - im happy... i emailed VM on the complaints form online, got a call 2 days later from someone who could actually help who sorted it all out me. I now have one account at my new house - installed today on time and no issues.... Woohoo its a first i tell you
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