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Huge fire at West London tower block
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Old 18-06-2017, 21:39   #136
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Well it could appear they went with the cheapest form of cladding which was flammable and also that they ignored the residents pleas for the fire risk the building posed even without that cladding.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------
The council seems to have been removed from the management of the crisis but the real issue here isn't their poor response but that they were in charge of this building ultimately and they have had repeated complaints about the safety of the building.
It's used up and down the country, not just in this instance. If it's that bad, why isn't it completely banned or simply not made in the first place.

The cheapest option was to have no cladding at all. It wasn't replacing anything, it was an additional feature.

The fire still got outside from inside a flat and then back into the building. Should that have happened that quickly?

Some of the complaints were from before the renovations.
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Old 18-06-2017, 22:19   #137
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
It's used up and down the country, not just in this instance. If it's that bad, why isn't it completely banned or simply not made in the first place.
Well yes, Why wasn't it? One of many questions.

Quote:
The cheapest option was to have no cladding at all. It wasn't replacing anything, it was an additional feature.
Again, needlessly added whilst residents were complaining about actual issues with the building.

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The fire still got outside from inside a flat and then back into the building. Should that have happened that quickly?
No it shouldn't. There seems to be an acceptance that the cladding is what caused it to spread so fast.
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:01   #138
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

SPECULATION, SPECULATION.........AND A BIT MORE SPECULATION

We don't, nobody doesn't know anything yet.

" it appears". " it might", "it looks like" , ....................


This will drag on for months, if not years, until the investigation is complete.

But until the investigations are complete it's all opinion, nothing more.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Again, needlessly added whilst residents were complaining about actual issues with the building.
Needlessly? In your expert opinion. It was part of refurb to improve the quality of the accommodation and the aesthetic of o very drab 60's/70's tower block.

When you decorate your house/ flat, is it needlessly?

When I spend money to improve the aesthetic of my house it is isn't money spent needlessly.

Quote:
No it shouldn't. There seems to be an acceptance that the cladding is what caused it to spread so fast.
Sorry no.

The fire spread internally just as quick. There was a complete failure to compartmentalise the fire.

Each flat, stairwell, dry riser, should be a fire compartment designed to contain the fire for a period of time.

Even if the fire burned away on the outside, it should not of ingressed internally and escape should have been possible.

This fire clearly propagated internally as quick as externally.

What we don't need, but unfortunately will get, is a load of armchair experts.
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:03   #139
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

This will drag on for months, if not years, until the investigation is complete.

But until the investigations are complete it's all opinion, nothing more.
Questions can be still be asked and educated guesses made. We shouldn't wait years to improve the fire safety measures until the end of the investigation, we should do what we can now.

We know the material on the outside of the building is flammable. It's banned in multiple countries. If the fire alarms didn't work we also know that is unacceptable. Both of those may be opinions but they're pretty solid ones and steps we can address before the outcome of an investigation.
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:33   #140
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Grenfell Tower cladding is banned in the UK, Chancellor says

Chancellor Philip Hammond has said that the controversial non fire-resistant cladding fitted to Grenfell Tower is in fact banned in the UK.

In the days after the tragedy occurred, attention has focused on the the panels that were fitted to the outside of the tower last year that have been labelled flammable by German and US authorities and banned from use on high rise buildings. Asked about this by the BBC’s Andrew Marr, the Chancellor said: “My understanding is the cladding in question, this flammable cladding which is banned in Europe and the US, is also banned here. “So there are two separate questions. One, are our regulations correct; do they permit the right kind of materials and ban the wrong kind of materials? The second question is were they correctly complied with? “That will be a subject that the inquiry will look at. It will also be a subject that the criminal investigation will be looking at.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795696.html

However, this is denied:
Quote:
But John Cowley, managing director of CEP Architectural Facades, which produced rainscreen panels and windows for Grenfell Tower's cladding sub-contractor Harley Facades Ltd, said: "Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK. "Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures.
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...-says-10919319

Last edited by 1andrew1; 18-06-2017 at 23:39.
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:36   #141
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Questions can be still be asked and educated guesses made. We shouldn't wait years to improve the fire safety measures until the end of the investigation, we should do what we can now.

We know the material on the outside of the building is flammable. It's banned in multiple countries. If the fire alarms didn't work we also know that is unacceptable. Both of those may be opinions but they're pretty solid ones and steps we can address before the outcome of an investigation.
It is NOT banned in multiple countries. It's use is RESTRICTED. Even an 8 storey building in the US or Germany would have been destroyed in the same manner. The restrictions are based upon reach of the fire ladders, not it's flammability. Theoretically, the higher the reach of the fire ladders, the higher the floors it could be used.
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:19   #142
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
The fire spread internally just as quick. There was a complete failure to compartmentalise the fire.
As you obviously are not speculating here, can you link the Fire Brigade report concluding this?
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:24   #143
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Questions can be still be asked
Yes they can

Quote:
educated guesses made.
Bollocks. Educated guesses? Yeah.

Quote:
We shouldn't wait years to improve the fire safety measures until the end of the investigation, we should do what we can now.
don't disagree.

Quote:
We know the material on the outside of the building is flammable. It's banned in multiple countries.
Lots of stuff is flammable, doesn't mean it's bad. Depends how it is used and deployed for the location it us designed to reside.

Quote:
If the fire alarms didn't work we also know that is unacceptable.
If, then yes.

Quote:
Both of those may be opinions but they're pretty solid ones and steps we can address before the outcome of an investigation.
No such thing as a solid " opinion"
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:26   #144
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
As you obviously are not speculating here, can you link the Fire Brigade report concluding this?
The pictures speak for themselves.
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:36   #145
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The pictures speak for themselves.
One man's analysis is another man's speculation when seen from a different angle.
I don't think it's over-harmful to speculate but we shouldn't delude ourselves that our armchair analysis is anything more this.
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Old 19-06-2017, 09:40   #146
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
As you obviously are not speculating here, can you link the Fire Brigade report concluding this?
Nice try, That was clearly self evident. if you own a pair of eyes.
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:16   #147
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Well it could appear they went with the cheapest form of cladding which was flammable and also that they ignored the residents pleas for the fire risk the building posed even without that cladding.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------



The council seems to have been removed from the management of the crisis but the real issue here isn't their poor response but that they were in charge of this building ultimately and they have had repeated complaints about the safety of the building.
I'm sorry but none of that justifies a mob storming the civic centre. The TMO and Council have responsibility here but it's not the ordinary staff of those organisations who are to blame for any of this.

TMO:

http://www.kctmo.org.uk/index
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Old 19-06-2017, 14:13   #148
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Nice try, That was clearly self evident. if you own a pair of eyes.
I'd rather not speculate. It could be that the exterior fire spread compromised the internal compartmentation or the internal compartmentation was indeed flawed and the fire would have spread, as you say, without the external cladding ignition source.

I guess we will have to wait until we get an authoritative report ..
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Old 19-06-2017, 16:41   #149
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

London has had a homeless population far in excess of those who've lost their homes in the Grenfell disaster for decades. Many have been homeless for years but I don't see Saint Corbyn demanding homes be requisitioned for them. Why not? We're all human beings as he likes to remind us all the time, why don't they (and anyone else who's lost their home for whatever traumatic reason) deserve the same help that he's demanding now? Answer, because this far more about political point scoring than the homeless.
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Old 19-06-2017, 16:49   #150
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
London has had a homeless population far in excess of those who've lost their homes in the Grenfell disaster for decades. Many have been homeless for years but I don't see Saint Corbyn demanding homes be requisitioned for them. Why not? We're all human beings as he likes to remind us all the time, why don't they (and anyone else who's lost their home for whatever traumatic reason) deserve the same help that he's demanding now? Answer, because this far more about political point scoring than the homeless.
So has the government not tried the same with their £5million fund? Does this mean that if your house now burns down through no fault of your own you are going to be entitled to approx. £5,500 plus all the other expenses the government have promised? I don't begrudge the people affected anything, but the 'scheme' was only announced when it became apparent how badly HMG had handled things.


Cheers


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