Southern rail strike talks to be held on second day of commuter misery

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I would like to make a couple of points.

The customers themselves has said that one day, when they were told by a reporter told them that there was a strike on.

The customer replied ' the service is that bad, they didn't know that'
This goes to show how bad the company runs it...

The RMT and ASLEF, are there to protect the worker. Like me, l am in the PCS. and they have saved my bacon a few times.

This is why they are there. The rail company are treating the workforce like crap. And it really make me laugh that Grayling still has a job.

This dispute has been going on for months, and Grayling has done nothing. Its just as bad that Corbyn, the **** hasn't got into it

This dispute is over safety, NOT MONEY.

I strongly believe that the Underground, British Railways should ALL have guards.

What happens on a tube train if the driver has a heart attack, or becomes unwell. The train stops in tunnel - what about the passengers. All the safety equipment kicks in and passengers cannot get off the train. And remember the live current is still running, and until such time the Emergency button is on.

Remember the other day, a plane was taking off. And the pilot had a heart attack. The co pilot took the plane back to the departure gate.

That cannot happen on a tube, or ground level train.

Yes, there are emergency measures on trains. BUT we are talking abut several minutes, maybe ten /15 minutes before help arrives.

Buses are different. If the driver becomes ill. He just stops and help is there.

ITS SAFETY.

Get rid of the company. And get a company in that thinks of the public

Nothing to do with safety, old bean. Where is the evidence to back up this claim?

The railways are already running on the same basis elsewhere in the country, including the busy underground, with no issues. It's just an excuse for industrial action.

You may believe that all trains should have guards. However, no reduction of staff on the trains has been proposed, has it?

Personally, I have nothing against the unions, they do have a vital role in protecting employees. However some unions are still fighting the old battles of the 80s and need to grow up. If they refuse to modernise their approach, they will see the legislation on industrial action tightening still further. How can that be a good thing for the unions? If they don't want legislative change to clip their wings still further, they need to stop playing politics and instead concentrate on the legitimate interests of protecting services and employees.

One thing we can agree on is that both the company and the Government could have been much more proactive than they have been. The dispute should have been resolved well before now, notwithstanding the intransigence and hostility of the ASLEF union.

[heero_yuy]

The union leader behind the Christmas rail strikes said industrial action had been coordinated to “bring down this bloody working-class-hating Tory government”, it has been claimed.

RMT president Sean Hoyle reportedly said the union's "rule number one" was to “strive to replace the capitalist system with a socialist order”.

Britain is bracing itself for further strikes on the Southern Rail network, which is likely to spell disaster for many travelling over the Christmas period and into the new year.

In excerpts of speeches published by The Times, Mr Hoyle reportedly told a meeting of hard-left activists last month, “if we all spit together we can drown the *******s”.

Linky

Some people can't stand democracy.

(Sorry, starred word is in the linked piece)

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Linky

Some people can't stand democracy.

(Sorry, starred word is in the linked piece)

democracy means getting your own way post brexit

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

democracy means getting your own way post brexit

I wonder how many didn't vote (including all those that didn't vote assumed to be non strikers) for the strike(s)?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

http://news.sky.com/story/southern-r...k-out-10694097

Firstly, let me say that yes, l do agree with strikes. BUT, l blame Mr Grayling, and the Government for NOT getting involved with discussion with the Rail Unions.

Its no good Grayling telling the workers, to get back to work. The rail Unions are protecting there members and the commuters

I had to think that when they were on strike, Commuters said the service was that poor. They didn't know they were on strike. That's how bad the service is.

The Government must take this service back. And tell the Main company to get knotted

In general, I agree. Southern and South Eastern should BOTH lose their franchises. Both have failed spectacularly to deal with situations they should have been able to deal with.

I personally was sad when Chris Grayling shot down the idea of TFL taking the London Metro routes, saying he doesn't see the point as we have know way of knowing if they will be any better. Ignoring the fact that while they have their faults, TFL have a proven track (no pun intended) record of massively improving failing railway lines they have taken over.

That said, railway companies all over the world (including SouthEastern) operate driver only trains perfectly safely. I am not convinced that the Unions are doing this for passenger safety.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Stuart

That said, railway companies all over the world (including SouthEastern) operate driver only trains perfectly safely. I am not convinced that the Unions are doing this for passenger safety.

With driverless cars and lorries on the horizon, driverless trains are sure to come. Some Metros are already driverless. A damaging dispute like this will hasten the day IMO.

List of automated systems

More extensive than I knew.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

With driverless cars and lorries on the horizon, driverless trains are sure to come. Some Metros are already driverless. A damaging dispute like this will hasten the day IMO.

List of automated systems

More extensive than I knew.

I have read in the past that the signalling systems TFL are currently installing are able to support fully driverless trains. However, the law in this country apparently requires a member of staff to be present on any train that goes underground to help passengers in emergencies. The DLR already operates this way, but the staff person (or Train Captain as they call them) performs other functions as well, such as random ticket checks and can optionally drive the train. Unless the law changes, TFL are likely to go down this route for the other tube lines.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Linky

Some people can't stand democracy.

(Sorry, starred word is in the linked piece)

Indeed, just for clarity there's a bozo in the other camp, who may well have been driving the whole thing

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...android-h3g-gb

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

http://news.sky.com/story/southern-r...k-out-10694097

Firstly, let me say that yes, l do agree with strikes. BUT, l blame Mr Grayling, and the Government for NOT getting involved with discussion with the Rail Unions.

I would point out that the dispute is between the rail unions and the company, not the Government.

However, the Government should have put Southern on notice that their contract would be terminated and re-tendered if they didn't get their acts together.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I would point out that the dispute is between the rail unions and the company, not the Government.

However, the Government should have put Southern on notice that their contract would be terminated and re-tendered if they didn't get their acts together.

How is it not about the government when you have a senior civil servant picking a fight with the union and threatening to destroy them and kick anyone out of 'his' industry who won't just roll over and be rode roughshod over

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I would point out that the dispute is between the rail unions and the company, not the Government.

However, the Government should have put Southern on notice that their contract would be terminated and re-tendered if they didn't get their acts together.

The government take the ticket sale receipts from Southern and the tax payer is paying the compensation to the season ticket holders ,it's also the government who awarded Southern the ridiculously dubious franchise .So yes it is most definitely the government.

https://www.indy100.com/article/ian-...n-rail-7482866

I think this sums up how I feel about this issue.

[denphone]

Yes he summed it up perfectly as even though l don't live in that area most of my family do and they are totally disgusted like many others with Southern Rail who are a poor excuse for a competent railway company and the government over this.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Old Boy.
Sorry my friend you are totally wrong.
If it is nothing to do with the Government, then why is Chris Grayling involved. He is the biggest pain in the arse going.

The Government should strip both companies of the franchise. The customers are being treated disgracefully. And next year prises will rise. And they are NOT stupid as the companies know that passengers will pay it.

Grayling should get the Unions round the table today, and get this strike called off.

He should take a leaf out of the Airports personnel.
Baggage handlers and pilots were going on strike. This was quickly resolved. So what cannot this dispute be solved/

This Country should look at China - l believe. There railways are conducted by computer, they run on time, are clean. And if they break down. They are taken out of service and replaced straight away by another train. So the service is NOT effected.

This strike is NOT over money. Its over safety.

If you check. Two years ago Boris Johnson wanted TFL to run trains on lines so that EACH station would have a train in it.
The Unions stopped this on the grounds of safety.

The Underground and Upper ground trains are run on very old tracks. And the tunnels are Victorian. So you MUST have a second official on trains.

IF you travel on the new trains on the London Underground now. ALL carriages are now totally walk through.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

How is it not about the government when you have a senior civil servant picking a fight with the union and threatening to destroy them and kick anyone out of 'his' industry who won't just roll over and be rode roughshod over

What a strange thing to say.

As I said, the dispute is about the RMT's refusal to accept Southern's requirement that drivers on trains should be responsible for closing the doors before departure. That is a normal employer/employee issue and nothing to do with the Government.

What is the Government's responsibility is making sure that the contracts it has awarded for the provision of services work satisfactorily. It was self evident many months ago that it wasn't, and so the Government should have taken action against the company before now.

I find it difficult to understand why you are supporting the union in this dispute. It's a strike over nothing and will achieve nothing. They really want a fight with the Government. If it comes to that, they will lose, but they don't have the sense to realise that.