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Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
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Old 07-02-2012, 16:43   #16
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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Originally Posted by Angua View Post
The current wave of attack on fraudulent benefit claimants has hit the most vulnerable first. Either because they do not have the ability to fight their corner or because they are single under 35 and live on their own. Top this off with the dreadful tabloid slant on "scroungers" and this is the result.

The benefit savvy know how to twist the system to suit & will continue to laugh all the way to the bank. Whilst the easy targets suffer the abuse.

Until there are clear signals that abuse of the vulnerable is wrong there is no hope. Judging by current appeal rates ATOS is one of the worst culprits.
It is about time victims of Benefit cuts, got together and formed a poltical bloc, so when next time there is a election, they vote the Tories/Lib Dems out!!!
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Old 07-02-2012, 17:54   #17
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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It is about time victims of Benefit cuts, got together and formed a poltical bloc, so when next time there is a election, they vote the Tories/Lib Dems out!!!
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Old 07-02-2012, 17:58   #18
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
It is about time victims of Benefit cuts, got together and formed a poltical bloc, so when next time there is a election, they vote the Tories/Lib Dems out!!!
And who was it that introduced ESA?
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Old 07-02-2012, 17:59   #19
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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And who was it that introduced ESA?
Exactly.
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Old 08-02-2012, 00:07   #20
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

Well I just hope there are enough decent people like us about to protect the more vulnerable disabled from abuse.
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Old 08-02-2012, 18:07   #21
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

Wasn't it quoted on this very forum recently that by the governments own figures fraud AND OVERPAYMENTS amounted to 2.5 billion now i would dearly love to see fraud cut to zero but it is never going to happen. Whilst a substantial sum of money is lost to the two things above as a country is it that much that it justifys the condemning of the sick and disabled even if i wasn't a claimant i would say no (actually had that attitude before i was forced to give up work). There is a campaign to label all claimants as frauds, scroungers, lead swingers and basically burdens to the country it was started by labour and has been picked up with gusto by this coalition and with the help of rags like the daily mail the perception that if your claiming your a fraud is sadly spreading.

Unless your sick and disabled you really don't have a clue just how much hostility there is towards us and it is becoming a regular thing. I manage to get into my town centre every couple of weeks (it's a 350 metre walk by which time i need to take two painkillers and sit down for an hour) we go to a cafe where we have a breakfast me and the wife and for the last six visits there has been a smartbackside sitting making stupid comments about how i shouldn't have the benefit to afford a meal in a cafe. I have seen him and his merry bunch of cretins also ridiculing other people out and about in the town in wheelchairs and mobility scooter things (although i often rage against those mobility things but).

I am sorry i have a genetic desease beyond my control that will eventually mean i canoot even move around my house to any decent standard i am sorry i havn't just gone off and swallowed all my pills to make things easier. Can the people in this country make their mind up once and for all do you want a welfare state lets have a damn vote on it. If you vote no then people like me will know where we stand and can do whatever we are able to try and live or if you do then stop expecting me to get down and thank you all the damn time for money that i get because i have always been grateful to the taxpayer in this country for the tax they pay that allows our system but lately i am getting sick and tired of being targetted because of something i cannot help.

Being honest if it were not for my wife and close family i think i may well have seriously thought about suicide because living day in and day out with no hope of complete cure with a level of pain that makes the worst migraine feel like a minor hangover isn't a barrel of laughs. Sorry bit more rage then i planned but i am really getting sick of it as it is becoming almost a daily thing with someone or something hitting at claimants and usually with no practical experience of living on benfits it gets you mad.
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Old 08-02-2012, 21:47   #22
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

RizzyKing.
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Old 08-02-2012, 23:30   #23
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

RizzyKing that about sums up how alot of us feel now
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:45   #24
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
There always has been and will always be abuse of disabled people .The fact that some charities have chosen to link such abuse to government policy on benefit fraud and welfare cuts is a disgrace .In doing this the charities will segregate the disabled section of society even more .What do these charities think will happen ?do they think the government will do a 'u' turn and cancel all the reforms based on a few stories from charities and organisations we know are against the cuts ?
The government have a lot to answer for and it seems your mission to have cuts driven through will stop at nothing, I find this post of yours sickening.

I remember an interview from cameron on tv where he refered to taxpayers as normal people so in his mind he already has a segregation of people where normal people work, have rights etc. and those who dont are of a lower class with lower rights. We have ideas about things like getting credit companies to pass on info to government regarding credit cards etc. which the idea behind it is to financially restrict people on welfare. Nearly all government policies are removing independendence from vulnerable people as they trying to remove state help which will only lead them to needing families to take them in removing all independance and self confidence.

Labour are also guilty as Im well aware of the propoganda during their reign also, its sickening that both major parties are pretty much the same on this.

Whats notable is the bbc has a lot of anti welfare stories, their panaroma has aired multiple anti welfare programes, eastenders has had anti welfare storylines, and MP's interviewed repeatedly spout lies and rubbish to the news. This over a number of years has manipulated the public into what they are now. Shameless on channel4 hasnt helped the situation either of course. That has a old lady faking a disability in a wheel chair and a long term dole claimant as one of the main characters who spends all day in the boozer. Although at least dispatches is much more balanced than panaroma as well as channel 4 news.

I also find it ironic these sort of stories are never printed by the likes of the daily mail and the sun. Yet they have no issue calling claimants all sorts of names like 'scroungers'.

---------- Post added at 03:25 ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
It is about time victims of Benefit cuts, got together and formed a poltical bloc, so when next time there is a election, they vote the Tories/Lib Dems out!!!
Its only the house of lords who seem to have any sympathy for the disabled.

Both labour and the tories have attacked the sick and vulnerable.

---------- Post added at 03:45 ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
I find it staggering that with our cradle to the grave NHS that so many people are considered as disabled. I suspect the definition has been greatly broadened in order to massage the jobless figures.

There must have been a time in ages past when these people would have had to have worked and a "bad back" or some ill defined malingering would just be an inconvenience rather than a meal ticket for life.

Whilst genuinly disabled must be given help it annoys me to see a car with a disabled badge park in the disabled bay and the driver positively leaps out to go shopping. It's that sort of abuse that needs to be checked. And before I get castigated, yes I know that some symptoms come and go but if you're having a good day shouldn't you leave the disabled bay empty for someone more deserving?

Some more disability stats
You need to stop trying to be a doctor.

For example I used to have days where I would walk to the GP and back, my journey would start out with me walking normally down the road, maybe 2, maybe 3 roads, the more the better. Usually I would be having problems before I get there and the last bit of walking I would be resorted to one step at a time, holding onto fences walls etc. The walk back would be much more diffilcult.

In regards to the NHS they are pretty aweful, I think its area dependent and a lot dependent how good your GP is and especially how sympathetic your GP is.

In all my health problems I have been very pro active in seeking medical help, often going to the GP/hospital in huge amounts of pain but it had to be done if I wanted treatment, I have also resorted to going to a&e numerous times as well.

The general problems I have come across are these.

1 - GPs refuse to do home visits, my GPs all seem to have age discrimination and a flat policy that if you under 65 you dont get a home visit.
2 - A tendency to overbook patients and then have them waiting in waiting rooms, this is a bigger issue than you may think, if you ill, in pain and its hard for you to get out, its a BIG problem to have to wait in a waiting room for an hour or more to see someone, much better to wait at home and then go there and see someone straight away. If they cant see me until 4pm then the appointment should be 4pm not 3pm and waiting an hour. Also the risk of catching things like viruses increases if you sitting in waiting rooms, for people who are already ill that can be quite critical.
3 - GPs refusing to reffer me for things like scans, x-rays etc. I have had to shout at my GP numerous times to get reffered, as they seem to just want to rescribe some painkillers and anti biotics and be done with it, I think again age discrimination comes into this and there seems to be a lazy attitude that if you not old then you cant get certian illnesses. Maybe they think I am putting my problems on I dont know. To give you an idea of a current problem, my entire lower leg is hard, red, with some infections, bloated, and now my feet have bloated up. My GP said I just have a dry skin issue. Yet this problem only kicks off in the cold (like when it snows) and has all the hallmarks of a blood circulation problem, in addition I did a self diabetes test which was positive, but they refuse to look into it. My GP is hard as rock and has no sympathy at all. I had a hospital specialist tell my GP to refer me to a dermatologist and the GP has refused to do it. Then the GP discharged me from the hospital by himself as he got sick of the specialist arguing with him which I am currently considering legal action over (happened 2 weeks ago).
4 - when at the hospital doctors are usually more sympathetic but I still think there is a degree of lazyness, because they are simply overwhlemed with patients. my eye infection which I am now in year 3, they have never done a scan of my eye to check for objects behind my eye, yet my sister under a different health authority had a eye scan when she had a suspected stroke. This eye infection under normal circumstances would stop me working, I have no doubt at all. It causes me aggro at random points of the day and is unpredictable. So I would never be able to work reliably for 8 hours a day with the problem. The saving grace is I work for myself so I can work round it.

I did have one very good GP some years back, he was a temporary GP after mine had retired and he was very good, I got reffered for numerous MRI scans, physiotherapy, whenever there was delays he pushed the hospital to speed them up and he supported me on a welfare claim. He was a brilliant doctor, he even rang me up to tell me about a blood test result. Unfortenatly it seems out of about 10 different GPs he is a one off.


The NHS is not all its cracked up to be, my personal experience leads me to think its a great emergency service but substandard for non life threatening long term conditions.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:22   #25
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

Trouble is the campaign against Disability Hate Crime has had relatively little publicity compared to the press "scrounger" headlines. And in tough times the lazy will always pick the easy target. This must be stopped.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:08   #26
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
The government have a lot to answer for and it seems your mission to have cuts driven through will stop at nothing, I find this post of yours sickening.
That's nice for you ,now back to real world .As has been explained to you and others on countless occasions we need to make the cuts because we can't afford the welfare system in the form it is in .It is or was too easy to claim the benefits making the system rife with fraud and misuse.We couldn't afford it 20yrs ago but we didn't have a government willing to address the problem instead of burying their head in the sand .

Quote:
I remember an interview from cameron on tv where he refered to taxpayers as normal people so in his mind he already has a segregation of people where normal people work, have rights etc. and those who dont are of a lower class with lower rights.
I would dearly love to see that interview because i strongly suspect that he didn't say that in the context you want it to mean

Quote:
Labour are also guilty as Im well aware of the propoganda during their reign also, its sickening that both major parties are pretty much the same on this.
Both parties are guilty of ensuring that we have a viable welfare system that the country can afford by weeding out the fraudsters and those on disability benefits that they shouldn't be .As i and others have said (but it doesn't fit with your paranoid views so you ignore them)there are many claimants who are on the wrong benefits ,there are people who can work even though they are not 100% fit and there are people who are just out and out defrauding the system .Yes it is going to be hard for disabled people to claim benefits but guess what ,that just makes disabled people the same as everybody else ,it's life ,it's a struggle even for able bodied people ,get over it and deal with it instead of whinging and whining that it's a bit harder to get the benefit .
You need to look at the reality of life in GB at the moment the golden era of massive government spending on services such as welfare is over .All services are being cut for everyone and people on benefits have to make their own small contribution along with everyone else ,to think otherwise is just plain selfish
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:17   #27
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

martyh still got your rose tinted glasses on I see.

yeah the 0.3% fraud we cant afford its crippling the country. The massive 1 billion a year. yet we can afford to write of 10s of billions of taxes. The excuse its to cut the fraud is a front, the truth is they just want to reduce the help given to the vulnerable. However I am glad you stand out in this thread and that others arent as brainwashed and blind to the truth.

Question for you.

Are you one of those who thinks fraud should always be a priority until it reaches zero percent? ie. you cant tolerate 'any' fraud. Even if it means vulnerable people not getting help.

Life isnt equally hard for everyone and you really are so out of touch its unreal.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:43   #28
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
martyh still got your rose tinted glasses on I see.

yeah the 0.3% fraud we cant afford its crippling the country. The massive 1 billion a year. yet we can afford to write of 10s of billions of taxes. The excuse its to cut the fraud is a front, the truth is they just want to reduce the help given to the vulnerable. However I am glad you stand out in this thread and that others arent as brainwashed and blind to the truth.

Question for you.

Are you one of those who thinks fraud should always be a priority until it reaches zero percent? ie. you cant tolerate 'any' fraud. Even if it means vulnerable people not getting help.

Life isnt equally hard for everyone and you really are so out of touch its unreal.
Again you refuse to see the reality of the stuation .The figures you quote are based on known fraud .The government have no idea how many people are defrauding the system because they haven't been caught yet At best the figures are a educated guess based on past known fraud and anti fraud initiatives.You may want to have a look at these figures from the DWP.And again you refuse to accept that people who can work ,albeit with restrictions,are claiming full disability benefits intended for people who genuinely cannot work ,that may be intentional or it may not ,it is a overly complicated system with far too many different benefits but it is still misuse .All these major faults in the system are trying to be addressed in the reforms, as they should be

and i have not said that life is equally as hard for everyone , i said ,
"it's a struggle even for able bodied people" so don't try to twist my words
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:55   #29
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Wasn't it quoted on this very forum recently that by the governments own figures fraud AND OVERPAYMENTS amounted to 2.5 billion now i would dearly love to see fraud cut to zero but it is never going to happen. Whilst a substantial sum of money is lost to the two things above as a country is it that much that it justifys the condemning of the sick and disabled even if i wasn't a claimant i would say no (actually had that attitude before i was forced to give up work). There is a campaign to label all claimants as frauds, scroungers, lead swingers and basically burdens to the country it was started by labour and has been picked up with gusto by this coalition and with the help of rags like the daily mail the perception that if your claiming your a fraud is sadly spreading.

Unless your sick and disabled you really don't have a clue just how much hostility there is towards us and it is becoming a regular thing. I manage to get into my town centre every couple of weeks (it's a 350 metre walk by which time i need to take two painkillers and sit down for an hour) we go to a cafe where we have a breakfast me and the wife and for the last six visits there has been a smartbackside sitting making stupid comments about how i shouldn't have the benefit to afford a meal in a cafe. I have seen him and his merry bunch of cretins also ridiculing other people out and about in the town in wheelchairs and mobility scooter things (although i often rage against those mobility things but).

I am sorry i have a genetic desease beyond my control that will eventually mean i canoot even move around my house to any decent standard i am sorry i havn't just gone off and swallowed all my pills to make things easier. Can the people in this country make their mind up once and for all do you want a welfare state lets have a damn vote on it. If you vote no then people like me will know where we stand and can do whatever we are able to try and live or if you do then stop expecting me to get down and thank you all the damn time for money that i get because i have always been grateful to the taxpayer in this country for the tax they pay that allows our system but lately i am getting sick and tired of being targetted because of something i cannot help.

Being honest if it were not for my wife and close family i think i may well have seriously thought about suicide because living day in and day out with no hope of complete cure with a level of pain that makes the worst migraine feel like a minor hangover isn't a barrel of laughs. Sorry bit more rage then i planned but i am really getting sick of it as it is becoming almost a daily thing with someone or something hitting at claimants and usually with no practical experience of living on benfits it gets you mad.
It about time the government crackd down on the wealthy, not the disabled!!!

Vote for a minor party until they do!!

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
That's nice for you ,now back to real world .As has been explained to you and others on countless occasions we need to make the cuts because we can't afford the welfare system in the form it is in .It is or was too easy to claim the benefits making the system rife with fraud and misuse.We couldn't afford it 20yrs ago but we didn't have a government willing to address the problem instead of burying their head in the sand .



I would dearly love to see that interview because i strongly suspect that he didn't say that in the context you want it to mean



Both parties are guilty of ensuring that we have a viable welfare system that the country can afford by weeding out the fraudsters and those on disability benefits that they shouldn't be .As i and others have said (but it doesn't fit with your paranoid views so you ignore them)there are many claimants who are on the wrong benefits ,there are people who can work even though they are not 100% fit and there are people who are just out and out defrauding the system .Yes it is going to be hard for disabled people to claim benefits but guess what ,that just makes disabled people the same as everybody else ,it's life ,it's a struggle even for able bodied people ,get over it and deal with it instead of whinging and whining that it's a bit harder to get the benefit .
You need to look at the reality of life in GB at the moment the golden era of massive government spending on services such as welfare is over .All services are being cut for everyone and people on benefits have to make their own small contribution along with everyone else ,to think otherwise is just plain selfish


---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
That's nice for you ,now back to real world .As has been explained to you and others on countless occasions we need to make the cuts because we can't afford the welfare system in the form it is in .It is or was too easy to claim the benefits making the system rife with fraud and misuse.We couldn't afford it 20yrs ago but we didn't have a government willing to address the problem instead of burying their head in the sand .



I would dearly love to see that interview because i strongly suspect that he didn't say that in the context you want it to mean



Both parties are guilty of ensuring that we have a viable welfare system that the country can afford by weeding out the fraudsters and those on disability benefits that they shouldn't be .As i and others have said (but it doesn't fit with your paranoid views so you ignore them)there are many claimants who are on the wrong benefits ,there are people who can work even though they are not 100% fit and there are people who are just out and out defrauding the system .Yes it is going to be hard for disabled people to claim benefits but guess what ,that just makes disabled people the same as everybody else ,it's life ,it's a struggle even for able bodied people ,get over it and deal with it instead of whinging and whining that it's a bit harder to get the benefit .
You need to look at the reality of life in GB at the moment the golden era of massive government spending on services such as welfare is over .All services are being cut for everyone and people on benefits have to make their own small contribution along with everyone else ,to think otherwise is just plain selfish
We can afford huge government spending and decent benifits if the governments cracked down on Tax Evasion!!!

Free Market Capitalism and Unequal Democracy has ruined the UK and the World and we have to pay for it!!!

It is about time the people of britain (both disabled and able-bodied middle and working class) got up, see the big picture and remove this government by any means and bring about real and radical change!!!

This is the perfect breeding ground for facism and Communism!!!

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Again you refuse to see the reality of the stuation .The figures you quote are based on known fraud .The government have no idea how many people are defrauding the system because they haven't been caught yet At best the figures are a educated guess based on past known fraud and anti fraud initiatives.You may want to have a look at these figures from the DWP.And again you refuse to accept that people who can work ,albeit with restrictions,are claiming full disability benefits intended for people who genuinely cannot work ,that may be intentional or it may not ,it is a overly complicated system with far too many different benefits but it is still misuse .All these major faults in the system are trying to be addressed in the reforms, as they should be

and i have not said that life is equally as hard for everyone , i said ,
"it's a struggle even for able bodied people" so don't try to twist my words
We have lost hundreds of billions from tax evasion!!!

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
The current wave of attack on fraudulent benefit claimants has hit the most vulnerable first. Either because they do not have the ability to fight their corner or because they are single under 35 and live on their own. Top this off with the dreadful tabloid slant on "scroungers" and this is the result.

The benefit savvy know how to twist the system to suit & will continue to laugh all the way to the bank. Whilst the easy targets suffer the abuse.

Until there are clear signals that abuse of the vulnerable is wrong there is no hope. Judging by current appeal rates ATOS is one of the worst culprits.
Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:06   #30
dilli-theclaw
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Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

Did you just suggest anarchy as a solution to the problems being discussed?

Ie 'remove this government by any means'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
It about time the government crackd down on the
wealthy, not the disabled!!!

Vote for a minor party until they do!!

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---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------



We can afford huge government spending and decent benifits if the governments cracked down on Tax Evasion!!!

Free Market Capitalism and Unequal Democracy has ruined the UK and the World and we have to pay for it!!!

It is about time the people of britain (both disabled and able-bodied middle and working class) got up, see the big picture and remove this government by any means and bring about real and radical change!!!

This is the perfect breeding ground for facism and Communism!!!

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------



We have lost hundreds of billions from tax evasion!!!

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------



Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
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