Post-Brexit Thread

[Osem]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

One thing's for sure - it's going to be a hard Brexit but possibly not in the way that some Leavers anticipated!

Yes, it'll cost more, take longer and weaken our bargaining position. What a result for the UK...

[techguyone]

Ah yes this thing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes, it'll cost more, take longer and weaken our bargaining position. What a result for the UK...

Whichever side of the fence we sit, I think we are all overdue a little light relief on the subject.

Originally Posted by Damien

The issue isn't the Government reneging on the promise to implement Brexit but if they have the legal authority to implement it without a Parliamentary vote.

They had a Parliamentary vote, they voted already, 6 to 1 to take the decision to the people, they cannot then give that decision and turn round and say, 'Well, actually, we don't agree with the decision and we are going to ignore it and have our own Parliamentary vote anyway.' It is unacceptable, and it will create a very serious constitutional crisis. Not only that but democracy will be killed off in this country and we will officially be living in a dictatorship. I don't think for one minute you seriously are advocating that.

It is hoped that the judges in the Supreme Court, when this goes to appeal will have more common sense and uphold the Governments case for appeal. I think however, they will need to improve upon their wording, to take their case forward.

I am pleased though that the PM is remaining firm that her plans to invoke Article 50 will not be derailed and rightfully so.

Originally Posted by nomadking

If the rule of Parliament is meant to be so supreme, how come none of the EU treaties and directives can be overturned by Parliament? By allowing Article 50 in a treaty in the first place, Parliament has already given away its responsibility of it.

They can ,Parliament can take us out of the EU tomorrow if it wishes ,the ultimate authority of Parliament has never been removed .

Originally Posted by Mick

They had a Parliamentary vote, they voted already, 6 to 1 to take the decision to the people, they cannot then give that decision and turn round and say, 'Well, actually, we don't agree with the decision and we are going to ignore it and have our own Parliamentary vote anyway.' It is unacceptable, and it will create a very serious constitutional crisis. Not only that but democracy will be killed off in this country and we will officially be living in a dictatorship. I don't think for one minute you seriously are advocating that.

It is hoped that the judges in the Supreme Court, when this goes to appeal will have more common sense and uphold the Governments case for appeal. I think however, they will need to improve upon their wording, to take their case forward.

I am pleased though that the PM is remaining firm that her plans to invoke Article 50 will not be derailed and rightfully so.

erm ,this isn't about stopping Brexit ,it's about who has the authority to start the process and the manner it will take and that should always lay with Parliament ....unless you want a dictatorship

Originally Posted by Mick

They had a Parliamentary vote, they voted already, 6 to 1 to take the decision to the people, they cannot then give that decision and turn round and say, 'Well, actually, we don't agree with the decision and we are going to ignore it and have our own Parliamentary vote anyway.' It is unacceptable, and it will create a very serious constitutional crisis. Not only that but democracy will be killed off in this country and we will officially be living in a dictatorship. I don't think for one minute you seriously are advocating that..

The referendum wasn't legally binding. The court has said that the Government simply doesn't have the power to issue Article 50. It's not them rowing back on it.

Also allowing Parliament to vote will not make us a dictatorship. That is going a bit far. Parliament is part of our democracy. Taking power away from the Crown and giving it to Parliament was a key part of transition to democracy. If anything we want to limit the powers the crown has precisely to avoid a dictatorship.

This is more about legal and constitutional process. It was a bit of a mess not making the vote binding but there are questions on how much power the Government has to use royal prerogative. From what I can work out the referendum give her moral legitimacy to use it but not legal legitimacy and that could prove a problem. From what I have read about the case the Government didn't use the referendum as the basis of their defense and instead attempted to characterise this as foreign policy and therefore within their domain.

[techguyone]

Considering we have referenda about once every 40 years, maybe they should make them legally binding and save all this bs.

Originally Posted by techguyone

Considering we have referenda about once every 40 years, maybe they should make them legally binding and save all this bs.

That was an option i believe and a mistake on Camerons part

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by martyh

That was an option i believe and a mistake on Camerons part

He's been accused of not being a detail person and I guess this supports that point. But he always thought that Remain would win so maybe didn't form a plan B because of this.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He's been accused of not being a detail person and I guess this supports that point. But he always thought that Remain would win so maybe didn't form a plan B because of this.

That is the whole problem i think,not many in high government actually thought we would vote to leave because they where incapable of reading the mood of the nation and made no plans for a leave result .I was disappointed with the result ,it was far to close to be decisive hence all the nastiness now ,if the result had been clear one way or the other we would not have this problem now with court cases ,Remoaners and Brexiteers .

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Considering we have referenda about once every 40 years, maybe they should make them legally binding and save all this bs.

For any referendum to be legally binding over half the the electorate should vote in favour (not just those who voted) imho. Brexit doesn't pass this test.

I expect the Supreme Court will do as they are told despite the Govt. arrogantly trying to by-pass parliament. Its good they've been brought to account for now. Don't think MPs would stop Brexit anyway, they haven't the guts, but they do need to have a say on how its done.

The Ice Queen is looking increasingly error prone with this and Grammar schools. Doesn't she look tired ?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by martyh

That is the whole problem i think,not many in high government actually thought we would vote to leave because they where incapable of reading the mood of the nation and made no plans for a leave result .I was disappointed with the result ,it was far to close to be decisive hence all the nastiness now ,if the result had been clear one way or the other we would not have this problem now with court cases ,Remoaners and Brexiteers .

Not being a very intelligent man myself you would have thought they would have had a plan B or even a plan C as its quite clear that David Cameron and those who supported him had one plan and not much else besides.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

For any referendum to be legally binding over half the the electorate should vote in favour (not just those who voted) imho. Brexit doesn't pass this test.

I expect the Supreme Court will do as they are told despite the Govt. arrogantly trying to by-pass parliament. Its good they've been bought to account for now for now. Don't think MPs would stop Brexit anyway, they haven't the guts, but they do need to have a say on how its done.

The Ice Queen is looking increasingly error prone with this and Grammar schools. Doesn't she look tired ?

Apparently for the first time for a awful long time all 11 supreme court judges will be sitting and eventually coming to their decision whatever that may be.

Originally Posted by denphone

Not being a very intelligent man myself you would have thought they would have had a plan B or even a plan C as its quite clear that David Cameron and those who supported him had one plan and not much else besides.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------



Apparently for the first time for a awful long time all 11 supreme court judges will be sitting and eventually coming to their decision whatever that may be.

I think Cameron has done the country a great disservice .In allowing the referendum he gave the people what they wanted but rather arrogantly presumed to know how they would vote and must have thought that it would be business as usual after the result .I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of no 10 on the morning of the rsult

[denphone]

Originally Posted by martyh

I think Cameron has done the country a great disservice .In allowing the referendum he gave the people what they wanted but rather arrogantly presumed to know how they would vote and must have thought that it would be business as usual after the result .I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of no 10 on the morning of the rsult

Apparently he slammed his fist on the table and shook his head several times not believing what had actually happened overnight but remember that is hearsay and might not be actually what happened on that infamous day.

Originally Posted by martyh

I think Cameron has done the country a great disservice .In allowing the referendum he gave the people what they wanted but rather arrogantly presumed to know how they would vote and must have thought that it would be business as usual after the result .I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of no 10 on the morning of the rsult

A book just came out today revealing some of that stuff. Apparently he was very calm as was Osborne. Just said 'well that didn't go to plan' and thanked his staff....