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Old 12-09-2017, 00:43   #16
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Re: Brexit discussion

BREAKING: Government wins EU Withdrawal Bill 2nd Reading. 326 For. 290 Against.

Labour loses Amendment vote.

Bill now passes to committee stage.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:30   #17
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Re: Brexit discussion

Where hopefully it will be amended somewhat to rein it in and remove the worst of the excesses.

---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Any workers rights as a result of EU directives, eg Working Time directive, are already enshrined in UK law. No changes needed.
I believe the point I and others have been trying to make is that the Bill gives Ministers the right to do almost literally anything they want, whether needed or not, and leaves whether it's necessary at their sole discretion.

It may also be used to completely remove any Parliamentary involvement in the end result of the process.

---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So have any changes been suggested? NO. Nothing being abused at all.
Again, this is the point. There's no need to suggest anything, Ministers can just go ahead and do it.

If they feel changes are necessary why would they bother announcing them when they can amend at their leisure once this process is done? Since when have politicians announced things that might be unpopular in advance?

Liam Fox is on record as saying the UK's labour market needs deregulation in order to make a success of the UK's departure from the EU. The 6 Labour MPs and the UKIP member for Vauxhall just voted to provide him and his party the authority to carry out that deregulation without further intervention of accountability to Parliament.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:00   #18
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet View Post
Where hopefully it will be amended somewhat to rein it in and remove the worst of the excesses.

---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------



I believe the point I and others have been trying to make is that the Bill gives Ministers the right to do almost literally anything they want, whether needed or not, and leaves whether it's necessary at their sole discretion.

It may also be used to completely remove any Parliamentary involvement in the end result of the process.

---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------



Again, this is the point. There's no need to suggest anything, Ministers can just go ahead and do it.

If they feel changes are necessary why would they bother announcing them when they can amend at their leisure once this process is done? Since when have politicians announced things that might be unpopular in advance?

Liam Fox is on record as saying the UK's labour market needs deregulation in order to make a success of the UK's departure from the EU. The 6 Labour MPs and the UKIP member for Vauxhall just voted to provide him and his party the authority to carry out that deregulation without further intervention of accountability to Parliament.
All previous Statutory Instruments were not subject to a vote, so why is it an issue now? EU regulations and even to a degree the Directives and Treaties, are also not subject to a Parliamentary vote. Although the directives have to be passed by individual national governments, the core principles that have to be included are set in stone before any Parliament gets a say.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:17   #19
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Re: Brexit discussion

There was 7 Labour rebels in last nights vote. Staunch Pro-Brexit MPs such as, Mann, Hoey, Field etc.

Dennis Skinner is a surprise rebel, he normally rallies around Corbyn.
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Old 12-09-2017, 14:02   #20
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Re: Brexit discussion

Analysis of Robert Peston's Tweets on the subject of Brexit to date makes interesting if not surprising reading:

Quote:
Peston has sent 284 tweets about Brexit since 24 June 2016.
3 tweets had a positive sentiment, that’s just 1% of his total tweets.
47 tweets were neutral, that’s 17%.
234 tweets were negative, remarkably that is 82% of his total Brexit tweets having a negative sentiment.
https://order-order.com/2017/09/12/b...n-82-negative/

Not much sign of anything positive to say there but then he did attend Universite Libre du Bruxelles...
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Last edited by Osem; 12-09-2017 at 14:07.
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Old 12-09-2017, 16:32   #21
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
All previous Statutory Instruments were not subject to a vote, so why is it an issue now? EU regulations and even to a degree the Directives and Treaties, are also not subject to a Parliamentary vote. Although the directives have to be passed by individual national governments, the core principles that have to be included are set in stone before any Parliament gets a say.
Wasn't that a massive part in some people's rationales to leave so parliament would be making the decisions and here at the first opportunity we're allowing them to be by passed. Out of the frying pan into the fire potentially.
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Old 12-09-2017, 19:21   #22
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Wasn't that a massive part in some people's rationales to leave so parliament would be making the decisions and here at the first opportunity we're allowing them to be by passed. Out of the frying pan into the fire potentially.
So let me get this right.

Rather than a Minister with an oversight committee fast tracking approx 12.000 EU rules, regulations and laws onto the statute books to comply with UK law instead of an EU body or the ECJ being the arbiter you'll be happy.

The alternative is introducing each and every one to parliament for discussion and amendment which will take years.

All the time that takes they will be null and void as we will no longer be members of the EU leaving a very large black hole in our statutes.

The Great Repeal bill has a limited time of application (the opponents don't mention that do they?) and ends on Brexit day whenever that may be.

Any of the rules regulations or laws that have been adapted can be modified by due process in parliament as and when they deem necassary just like any other laws.

So, what is your alternative?
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Old 13-09-2017, 09:27   #23
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Bill Gates believes Britain’s science and tech sector will boom after Brexit despite previously warning against voting leave.

The Microsoft founder and world’s richest man reckons the UK will *continue to attract talent and excel at research.

Gates, 61, said he had donated £750billion to the top universities in Britain “because they’re the best”.

Microsoft founder Gates had said leaving the EU could jeopardise our booming science community but now feels the excellence of research can continue.

He highlighted universities in Liverpool, Edinburgh and London as well as Cambridge and Oxford where his philanthropic organisation has donated £750million.

The 61-year-old told the Telegraph he chose them “because they’re the best at doing lots of this important work”.
Source

So even the mighty Gates now sees the sense in Brexit.
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Old 13-09-2017, 10:21   #24
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
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So even the mighty Gates now sees the sense in Brexit.
£750billion .. really?
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Old 13-09-2017, 10:35   #25
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Re: Brexit discussion

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£750billion .. really?
That's quite generous.

I hope scence does boom, but if so it'll be despite Brexit not because of it.
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Old 13-09-2017, 11:14   #26
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Re: Brexit discussion

I think Juncker has had too much from the bottle again. "Brits will soon regret their vote to leave."

Not this Brit! Up yours Juncker.
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Old 13-09-2017, 12:05   #27
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I think Juncker has had too much from the bottle again. "Brits will soon regret their vote to leave."

Not this Brit! Up yours Juncker.
Yep, been listening to it on the Beeb all morning. Not a word of comment from our supposed journalists about the huge problems which remain in the EU. Just repeat after repeat of how well it's all going over there. If it'd been the PM saying all this about the UK, there'd have been the inevitable other side of the argument put forward by whoever the Beeb could invite to do so. It's also in stark contrast to their treatment of any good news which happens in the UK when it's either in spite of Brexit or caveated in some way with dire warnings about something or other.

One thing I'm grateful to Junker for however is his confirmation, if one were needed, that the EU is totally committed to more integration and that would be the reality if the UK doesn't get out while it can. By hook or by crook and with, I'm sure, the co-operation of certain of our own politicians who refuse to accept the Brexit vote, we would be inevitably drawn further into the whole thing making leaving or even reform of the EU a practical impossibility. That's of course what they all want and if we were to remain inside the EU doing so would become a priority for the Eurocrats. The EU refused reform even in the face of the club's second largest contributor and world's 5th largest economy leaving. How much less likely would they be to accept change were we to give in to their threats and remain?...
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Last edited by Osem; 13-09-2017 at 12:11.
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Old 13-09-2017, 13:36   #28
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Yep, been listening to it on the Beeb all morning. Not a word of comment from our supposed journalists about the huge problems which remain in the EU. Just repeat after repeat of how well it's all going over there. If it'd been the PM saying all this about the UK, there'd have been the inevitable other side of the argument put forward by whoever the Beeb could invite to do so. It's also in stark contrast to their treatment of any good news which happens in the UK when it's either in spite of Brexit or caveated in some way with dire warnings about something or other.

One thing I'm grateful to Junker for however is his confirmation, if one were needed, that the EU is totally committed to more integration and that would be the reality if the UK doesn't get out while it can. By hook or by crook and with, I'm sure, the co-operation of certain of our own politicians who refuse to accept the Brexit vote, we would be inevitably drawn further into the whole thing making leaving or even reform of the EU a practical impossibility. That's of course what they all want and if we were to remain inside the EU doing so would become a priority for the Eurocrats. The EU refused reform even in the face of the club's second largest contributor and world's 5th largest economy leaving. How much less likely would they be to accept change were we to give in to their threats and remain?...
In a nutshell, yes.
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Old 13-09-2017, 13:39   #29
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I think Juncker has had too much from the bottle again. "Brits will soon regret their vote to leave."

Not this Brit! Up yours Juncker.
Not very nice Michael, you've been reading too many tabloids again Tbh, I think he's right.

I was in Europe last week, there was almost pity for us, apart from the French who are glad to see the back of us ! The EU will lose and we'll lose, but they are in a much better position to recover by virtue of size. The signs are already there, the EU economy is storming ahead and ours is stagnating.
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Old 13-09-2017, 15:25   #30
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Re: Brexit discussion

And here's the analysis of Robert Peston's Tweets on the subject of Brexit. Anyone care to guess how what percentage have been positive?

Quote:
Robbo has sent 157 tweets about Brexit since 24 June 2016.
3 tweets had a positive sentiment, that’s just 2% of his total tweets.
65 tweets were neutral, that’s 41%.
89 tweets were negative, that is 57% of his total Brexit tweets having a negative sentiment.
https://order-order.com/2017/09/13/b...o-not-neutral/

Yes he's twice as positive as his ITV counterpart, not that it means much as can be seen above. Did anyone really expect more balance amongst these media heavyweights?
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