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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20-03-2008, 04:48   #1501
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

ROFL
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...0_pi/comments/
"
I Am the Anti-Phorm !!

By MYOFB
Posted Wednesday 19th March 2008 20:48 GMT
My answer to the issue of Phorm is . . .
If it comes to pass that BT, VM, CPW, et al implement their 'package' then I will personally Roger them all Rigid, whilst taking a 'Happy Slap' video on my mobile (which I will post to every 'social' website).

When I'm hauled into court to face the charges of my perverse course of action, my Barrister (in my defence) will put forward this 'argument' . . .
"How can you stand there before this court to complain of being shafted, publicly, by one man, when you yourselves have shafted millions, publicly, between you?!" "I ask the court to dismiss all charges herein based on these grounds!"
Law Lords response . . . ?
Case dismissed!!!
"
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Old 20-03-2008, 11:37   #1502
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

The shares in Phorm still drop and this is an interesting post by one who sold today.
Quote:
UK revenue may be a little slow as they will have to wait on the outcome of both Ofcoms investigation and the olf Legal cases that BT brought on bith themselves and PHorm for running a secret trial on live data which means they have probably intercepted illegaly customers information. IM pretty sure consent to the scheme may be thin on ground after they lose that one not Phorm itself could be liable and face fines.

i would love to know who on this forum is the Phorm bought PR machine user as it seems every forum and discussion site has at least one. I wonder if that out break the insider trading rule if you use a Pr company to spread roumers and quash others inorder to make money on the market???
Not sure why Morgan dean and stanly invested in phorm it might bee the worst investment they have ever done.

A good read might have to sign up to read it but copyright will stop me pasting any here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/bu...gin&oref=login
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Old 20-03-2008, 12:43   #1503
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hi all, newbie in the forum here but this has just got my dander up that I had to add my voice against these clowns. Forgive me if I'm posting already rehashed information (and for a long post!), but I thought you might like to see the mealy-mouthed response I have just received from Virgin in answer to my complaint about their jumping into bed with Phorm. Clearly they just don't get it and more importantly, don't care! Thanks for letting me vent...

Thank you for your e-mail dated 18 March 2008 expressing your concerns about the recent speculation linking your Internet usage with ?Open Internet Exchange? and Phorm.

We will soon be working with a company, Phorm, to provide some new online protection and enhancement features for our broadband customers.

Phorm is the company behind an innovative new system called Webwise.
Webwise helps give you a safer online experience by helping you avoid scam emails or websites, as well as making your online experience more relevant through advertising that matches your areas of interest.

Webwise has been designed from the ground up to protect our customers' privacy and anonymity. As the system only learns about topics of interest, it does this anonymously, ensuring their privacy is completely protected.
? Neither the web addresses, nor search terms they use are stored. They are purely matched to an advertising topic and then discarded.
? Webwise doesn't store their internet (IP) address or keep track of their browsing. The system or advertisers won't know who you are or the websites they've visited.
? No personally identifiable information such as email addresses, surnames, street addresses, or phone numbers are ever gathered.
? No sensitive or personal financial information, such as credit card numbers, login IDs, passwords or bank account numbers are ever gathered.


To reiterate, you won't be forced to use the system, and you will be given the choice to keep your internet experience exactly as it is now. As we get closer to launch we'll explain how this will work.
Webwise only replaces ads with more relevant ads, customers do not receive any more ads and certainly do not receive pop ups.

The customer?s privacy is totally protected, again to reiterate no personal information is collected and what we will track are search terms and URL`s visited, this information is not traceable back to the individual and is not kept or stored as unlike some other ad targeting technologies that already exist and utilise customer data. In addition, whole rafts of industry bodies and privacy experts have been engaged with regard to the implementation of ?Webwise?.

We will be as transparent and upfront with customers as we can; giving them every opportunity of not participating if that is what they want to do.

We are of course aware there are a number of `stories` being circulated, a lot of what is being touted is ill informed.

I hope this reassures over any concerns you may have and clarifies our position regarding this issue.

Please note if you reply directly to this e-mail your response will not be received.

Kind regards


Nathan Le Page
E-Contact Team
Virgin Media




complaintType : cust_services
complaintDetail : I have learned about your deeply misguided decision to sign up to Phorm. I find this a disgraceful abdication of your customers' right to privacy and request that you reconsider this policy with immediate effect. It is perfectly clear that the only beneficiaries to this are Phorm and Virgin Media, while the customers' privacy is blown open. Your disingenuous FAQs do nothing to alleviate the fact that you are cynically destroying a bond of trust between us and you. I am disgusted with your actions and will leave Virgin Media if you do not amend your policy.
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Old 20-03-2008, 12:45   #1504
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

While it's not a Phorm related article, the register has posted the details that VM is dropping the premium rate tech support line.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03..._rate_dropped/

the section that is of interest
Quote:
A Virgin Media spokesman said today: "Whilst calls to the premium rate broadband support line are already refunded when there has been a fault with our network, perhaps that wasn't clear.

"We have been working hard to improve customer service and listening to what our customers say, so will now be removing this charge from the outset."
So if they're listening to customers they obviously know how we feel about Phorm. So the sooner they get rid of the very idea of it the better.
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Old 20-03-2008, 12:57   #1505
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper
been there, done that, got no answers to the questions put....

generic answers are such fun....
and this ones not been mentioned in a while.
  1. If you are a customer of BT Retail (or of any other BT divisions e.g. BT Business) , Virgin Media or Carphone Warehouse Talk Talk, or any other company that thinks to profile your data for advertising , then you might like to write to them quoting the very clear The Data Protection Act 1998 section 11:
    1. 11 Right to prevent processing for purposes of direct marketing
    2. (1) An individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing for the purposes of direct marketing personal data in respect of which he is the data subject.
    3. (2) If the court is satisfied, on the application of any person who has given a notice under subsection (1), that the data controller has failed to comply with the notice, the court may order him to take such steps for complying with the notice as the court thinks fit.
    4. (3) In this section "direct marketing" means the communication (by whatever means) of any advertising or marketing material which is directed to particular individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucevans View Post
So, that being the case, what do you reckon to the following DPA notice?:

"Data Protection Notice

I write regarding the intention of Virgin Media to implement Phorm’s system known as “webwise” on your broadband network. I have studied the available information on the technical functionality of this system, and I do not want it to be applied to my internet connection. Please note that I am fully aware of the opt-out system requiring either the placing of a cookie on my computer or the blocking of access to certain domains, but I reject these methods for the reason outlined below:

Despite the offer of an opt-out to prevent me receiving targeted advertising from this system, it is apparent that my web browsing data could still be mirrored to, and analyzed by, Phorm-supplied hardware within your network. Although assurances have been made by Phorm that if I opt-out of the system, no data pertaining to my web browsing habits will be passed from that hardware to Phorm or it’s associates, no assurance has been given that the mirroring and/or profiling of my data will not still take place within the Virgin Media network, and this is unacceptable to me.

According to Phorm, the mirroring and profiling hardware that they supply becomes the property of Virgin Media, so that being the case, I would like to draw your attention to Section 11 of The Data Protection Act 1998 which give me the right to require you to cease, or not begin, processing my data for the purposes of direct marketing.

I hereby inform you that I exercise that right, and prohibit you from routing, mirroring, processing or profiling data traveling to or from my internet connection using any equipment supplied to you for the purpose of operating the Phorm system.

In the event that you receive this letter before the webwise system has been implemented, then it constitutes my standing instruction to you to not begin processing my data in the way outlined above in the future."
....
far to complicated, your falling into the basic trap they hope everyone falls for.

you need to keep in mind, ITS YOUR DATA and your RIGHT to tell them what they can or cant do with it, NOT Theirs.

you dont need to explain your reasons why they must follow your instructions, only that they do as you instruct, as per section this and clause that under the so and so act, and notify you in writing by return post, the actions they have taken to abide by your official Notice.

if they dont act on your instructions and acknowlage your Notice, and infact do something silly like a email a link to some page, or a simple we are sorry for your complaint etc.

dont worry about it, its NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

after a set time limit has passed ( i forget 14 days,31 days or something , anyone clarify that?), you can then forward copys of your DPA Notice paper work to the Information commissoners office laying out your complaint of non compliance and have the DC act on the complaint.

the DC's office can do several things, not least (but not limited too), remove/revoke the ISPS data processing licence, putting them up shitcreak as it were....

its in the ISPs or indeed any other data processing companys interest, to make sure they act on your DPA Notice or they run the risk of not being able to process your bill due to a revoked DC licence....

as an End user/consumer you dont realise just how powerful a DPA notice can be, until now.

and funny thing is, we probably would never have realised if it were not the the banks and their charges forcing the UK public to finally learn their right under the legislation.

somehow i dont think the UKs ISPs can hope to finance any long term battle with the UK users, as they dont have anywere near the banks finantial clout etc.

you have a choice, run away from the battle, or write those registered letters, its your choice to let them roll you over or not.

weres Mr A when he's needed
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Old 20-03-2008, 13:09   #1506
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unphormed View Post
Hi all, newbie in the forum here but this has just got my dander up that I had to add my voice against these clowns.
That's the standard spin from the helpdesk. I got a reply from Ian Woodham, the VM Group Data Protection Officer which I posted at http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34508819

which offers a little less spin. I doubt he's expecting the response he's going to get though...

Still, it's a statement saying that nothing phrom phorm has been implemented.

Of course, if you go to any site signed up to OIX (e.g. The Grauniad) you will wet oix and webwise cookies. Others here are keeping an eye out for signs of Phorm infiltration.

We need to keep the anti Phorm campaign going. The ISPs won't retreat until they realise how this negative coverage is going to affect their brands and their income.
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Old 20-03-2008, 13:26   #1507
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

40 calendar days for DPA (or at least for Subject Access Requests, I would assume it is the same for all communications).

Alexander Hanff
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Old 20-03-2008, 14:00   #1508
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Sadly the Phorm share price is only down 6.58% today. We need another article or announcement from some official body/campaign group/website and then we can enjoy watching the stock price fall even further. I did email Liberty asking them if they had any comments or thoughts but so far have had no response from them.
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Old 20-03-2008, 14:54   #1509
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have just issued a data protection act letter to Virgin Media, 1 via registerd mail and 1 by email

Recived the standard we will get back to you email.

Hi Mr ++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the email you sent to us on 20 March 2008. We're on the case
and a member of our team will get back to you as quickly as possible,
usually within 48 hours.

Don't forget - if there's anything else you'd like to know, just log on
to our website. It's at www.virginmedia.com

Kind regards,

The team at Virgin Media
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Old 20-03-2008, 15:03   #1510
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I sent them an email about Phorm a few days a go and just got this reply

Quote:
Hello Joanne

Thank you for your e-mail dated 14 March 2008 regarding Virgin Media and
Phorm.

I understand your concerns and would like to thank you for your
feedback, however I must stress that although Virgin Media have signed a
provisional agreement with Phorm, we still have a lot of work to do in
evaluating various aspects of any possible deployment. As a result, it
may be some months before we are in a position to confirm how and when
the solution will be implemented.
We will of course be communicating our intentions openly and
transparently and will be letting all our customers know before rolling
out the Webwise solution and we'll clearly explain how the system works.
We will also inform you if there are any changes to your terms and
conditions beforehand.

I understand BT and Talk Talk are due to start trials of Webwise shortly
which we shall be watching closely. We intend to learn from these
trials.
Please be assured we will not be doing anything that concerns or abuses
our customers privacy.

Ultimately customers will not be forced to use the system and will be
able to keep their Internet experience just as it is now should they
wish.

For more information please see the following link:
http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/webwise.php

Thank you for contacting us.
If you have further queries regarding this matter or any other issue,
please use the link provided below:

www.virginmedia.com/contact

Please note if you reply directly to this e-mail your response will not
be received.

Kind regards


xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
E-Contact Team
Virgin Media
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Old 20-03-2008, 15:41   #1511
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenheart View Post
I sent them an email about Phorm a few days a go and just got this reply
I've had something very similar, however my original e-mail included notice to terminate all services. In their reply they added that "as they are not using webwise they won't act on my notice" or words to that effect. I don't think it works like that, forcing me to be a customer!

It's innane - at the end of the months notice I will forward the original notice to them again and just cancel my DD. Typical telewest/virgin. What i'm not prepared to do is spend hours on the 'phone sorting this all out.
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:09   #1512
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
I have just issued a data protection act letter to Virgin Media, 1 via registerd mail and 1 by email

Recived the standard we will get back to you email.

Hi Mr ++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the email you sent to us on 20 March 2008. We're on the case
and a member of our team will get back to you as quickly as possible,
usually within 48 hours.

Don't forget - if there's anything else you'd like to know, just log on
to our website. It's at www.virginmedia.com

Kind regards,

The team at Virgin Media
Email 'official Notice' isnt valid for VM as they removed that electronic official notice option from the Virgin Media T&Cs a while back.

by the same token, Virgin Media cant now sent you any valid official Notice by Electronic means eather, it works both ways and the only option they have right now, is the paper and post way.

remember that, when they try and and use an Electronic pop up 'do you agree' type Explicit Consent form, its not valid.

unless they (have)put the Electronic 'official Notice' option back in their T&C, they are stuffed.

in which case you can again use Electronic Email to then send your 'official Notice'

the other ISP users should go read your current T&C and check it for the same reason, perhaps they dont allow for Electronic Official notice eather.....
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:26   #1513
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 View Post
I've had something very similar, however my original e-mail included notice to terminate all services. In their reply they added that "as they are not using webwise they won't act on my notice" or words to that effect. I don't think it works like that, forcing me to be a customer!

It's innane - at the end of the months notice I will forward the original notice to them again and just cancel my DD. Typical telewest/virgin. What i'm not prepared to do is spend hours on the 'phone sorting this all out.
You're better of calling them, tell them you want to cancel, and tell them why. As long as you are ouit of contract, you have then given them 30 days to act on your request.

Don't just cancel your DD, that could cause more problems.

GET the name of the person that you have spoken to, confirm that they have noted your account. Follow that upp with a letter, explaining you have requested that your account be terminated, the time and date you made the call, and who took it.

See what that does.
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:28   #1514
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by popper View Post
Email 'official Notice' isnt valid for VM as they removed that electronic official notice option from the Virgin Media T&Cs a while back.

by the same token, Virgin Media cant now sent you any valid official Notice by Electronic means eather, it works both ways and the only option they have right now, is the paper and post way.

remember that, when they try and and use an Electronic pop up 'do you agree' type Explicit Consent form, its not valid.

unless they (have)put the Electronic 'official Notice' option back in their T&C, they are stuffed.

in which case you can again use Electronic Email to then send your 'official Notice'

the other ISP users should go read your current T&C and check it for the same reason, perhaps they dont allow for Electronic Official notice eather.....
That's why i sent it registered mail as well

Quote:
1 via registerd mail and 1 by email
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:41   #1515
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
You're better of calling them, tell them you want to cancel, and tell them why. As long as you are out of contract, you have then given them 30 days to act on your request.

Don't just cancel your DD, that could cause more problems.

GET the name of the person that you have spoken to, confirm that they have noted your account. Follow that up with a letter, explaining you have requested that your account be terminated, the time and date you made the call, and who took it.

See what that does.
yep, i have to agree with that, its always better to send a (registered) letter.

it might also be wise to include a final notice, removing the ISPs right to collect,store,process or export any personal data in any way.

its been said before, the accounts department do like to keep billing closed contracts accounts and then sending the credit reference agencys these non existant contracts/closed accounts defaults and without even sending a 'default notice' to these closed accounts.....

you remove the right offically as their no longer contracted
to do so , and your covered with a paper trail.
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