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'Not financially viable'!
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Old 27-08-2011, 15:26   #1
gherkin
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Unhappy 'Not financially viable'!

Hi all,

Just wondering if I could get some opinions on some issues I've been having trying to get Cable installed. It's a pretty long read so apologies in advance.

TL;DR version:

- VM say that installation without disturbing my neighbour is financially unviable. I don't see how it can be that much more costly than their proposed route which greatly disturbs my neighbours. Is there anything I can do to convince them?

It all started about three years ago when I signed up for VM. Before the installation they had drawn things on the ground with paint, including where the little 'catv' cover would go. However, the installation date came and went and I hadn't heard anything from them (other than being charged for it!). After chasing them up they told me that I couldn't get it but were unable to provide any further explanation. They then continued to charge us for service for the first month and it took another month to get them to refund the money.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago. I stumbled upon the link where you can fill out a form and ask them to investigate an area further. A few days later I received a call from a gentleman who was a local representative. He offered to come round and confirm whether it could be done as my immediate neighbours to the left have had cable in the past as have neighbours in the same block of houses (on the other end).

He said that it is not a problem when he came round and also said that the cable runs right alongside the top of our garden. The day before installation was due to take place I saw two men from Virgin Media having a look around (I guess this is the pre-installation team?). I didn't have time to chat to them as I had to get ready for work and they were gone shortly after. I received a phone call later that day from someone saying that they needed to cut through the downstairs flat's driveway and they were unable to get permission. I was perplexed as to who this downstairs flat referred to, it turns out it was my neighbours and they had approached them during the day about cutting down and across their driveway. I'm not happy about them asking my neighbours this completely out of the blue without telling us the situation first. My neighbours quite understandably were not going to give their permission for work to be done without due consideration and consultation. The VM guy who told me on the phone was unable to offer details about where exactly things needed to be cut but from speaking to my neighbour it seems this is what they wanted to do:



There is already a cable line (I think its unused now) going through the neighbours concreted front garden and into their property. The installation team wanted to cut across the bottom of their driveway (its about 6 or 7 metres - that diagram is not to scale) and connect the end of that cable to our property. The whole area is concreted so it would have been quite messy but since it wasn't explicitly explained to me I'm not sure this is even what they wanted.

That was about a month ago, and since then I've been trying to get through to my local representative to confirm exactly what work needed to be done and for what reason, given it was supposed to be going right outside my garden. Unfortunately, the number seemed to be connected to a FAX machine for a long period of time until a few weeks ago when another gentleman picked up (the other chap is on holiday) and said he would come and check it out and it should be possible to do so without disturbing my neighbours. He has said that actually we can just cut across the private road, it could be that the engineers didn't realise this at first.

He also quite candidly said that a lot of subcontractors in the area are very lazy and since they get paid by the job they don't want to spend the time doing it if its slightly more complicated than average and that may have been what happened.

So the install was rebooked (as the previous job had been cancelled). I was told that a survey appointment was made for the morning of Saturday 27th. The local rep said that he will discuss the options with us when he comes, including properly explaining the route via the neighbours. Unfortunately, this survey person never turned up (or if they did they didn't speak to us about it).

After phoning VM, they said the technician has now declared the property unserviceable again. Apparently he came (he didn't knock on the door to speak to us and I was looking out of the window for most of the morning in anticipation and didn't see them so I have my doubts about that). According to VM Customer Services, he has said that the only way to do it is to dig across the neighbours driveway. Digging across the private road is apparently financially unviable according to the team manager of the team that came. The local rep told me specifically that if the technician says that I should say something about 'the spotter has preapproval' from somewhere or something in that tune. Of course, since they didn't let their presence known to me I couldn't tell them that and the VM Customer Service were having none of that and saying that the Team Manager hath spoken.

The issue I have is that I do not for one second doubt what the spotter said about some subcontractors not wanting to do a job which is a little more complicated. If that truly is the case then I do not accept that as an outcome. The reason I think it might be is that the actual digging across from where the cable on the neighbour's property is maybe at best a few metres shorter than they would be digging from the street. If they are digging to the 'catv' cover then it would be about 5/6 metres extra digging. If they are digging just to the street pavement it would be the exact same distance pretty much as digging from the neighbour's house. I don't know the technical stuff behind it, but I don't see how 5 or 6 metres can make it financially unviable.

Is there any possible avenue I can still pursue to be able to get Virgin Media? I even asked on the phone about getting more packages to make it viable (right now its just broadband + phone but I have no problem with swtiching from Sky and getting several TiVO boxes + sports + HD + movies if that means they can do it) but the CS rep said the team manager would only say the same thing.

At the very least I want the technician who comes out to speak to me about what route they actually want to take. Right now I'm just assuming based off what my unsure neighbours seemed to think and the local rep who came round. We need to know what they are planning to even begin to discuss it with our neighbours (if it comes down to the last resort).

Is there anything at all that I can do to get them to install their services? Is there anyone else I can contact? Is there a local manager at all?

Thanks in advance for your advice!
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Old 27-08-2011, 15:45   #2
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

It costs a fortune to dig up concrete , that's a 100% no go for one customer. The installers used to carry a circular saw for laying cable in concrete then tarring it over. Unfortunately now they don't carry it due to what i suspect customer complaints of driveways not looking as good as they did.

I can't see virgin going ahead with this, do you have a link for google maps?
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Old 27-08-2011, 16:04   #3
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Hi jb. I've sent you the Google Maps link to the location.

The end of my neighbour's driveway is also concrete, but they have to dig up less that way so I can see why it would be cheaper. Is there any way to get them to actually explain to me exactly where the digging will take place and how wide they'll be digging?
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Old 30-08-2011, 21:26   #4
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Well this is a little strange.

After all that saga I had a call this afternoon from a VM technician asking if I was free for my installation today within the next ten to fifteen minutes. First I'd heard of any installation appointment and anyway I thought it was just not possible. I told him what they had said to me about the survey visit. He said that is unusual and he insisted on having a look himself.

Ninety minutes later we had Virgin broadband! He's done it by taking a cable from the neighbour's existing junction box on the side of their house (their cable connection has been dormant for many years now) and hooking it up to our house by running it across the front of their house (they had no problem with this - there's already a multitude of wires there). That old junction box and cable run under their concrete has essentially become our cable and junction box, except it is on their property.

Only problem is I suppose I can't get Virgin TV in the future as I don't want to put more cables across the front of their house. Still, all I wanted for now was the broadband so I'm happy with that!

I can't believe the solution was so simple after all that. All I wanted was for a technical guy to come over and discuss the options with myself and my neighbour and exactly where any digging/work would take place and I was sure we'd find an agreeable solution or have final closure.

I'm glad its sorted now. Much credit to the local reps who insisted it wasn't a problem and pushed through the installation and the technician who came round today. Everyone else unfortunately has been most unhelpful and the whole experience has been filled with vague miscommunication. I'll be providing feedback to Virgin shortly.
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Old 30-08-2011, 21:32   #5
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
Only problem is I suppose I can't get Virgin TV in the future as I don't want to put more cables across the front of their house.
Did they tell you this? I'm sure you'd be able to stick in a splitter and get TV installed if you wished.

Glad you got it sorted in the end, welcome to the VM club where anything is possible if you add enough insanity.
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:08   #6
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

No, they didn't say anything about it. I just thought of it but if you can split the cable then that is good news. There is one smaller cable (which I think is the phone) and one thicker cable which connects to a white VM box inside the house. How many connections can I have split from this cable?

It's as fast as I could have wished for.
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:27   #7
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Yeah the thin cable is the telephone cable and the fat ones the cable feed for BB and TV. You can get a 3 way splitter. Whats your BB speed?

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------

by the way didn't they put in a splitter? have you got a direct cable coming into your property into the wall mount attenuator then out straight to your broadband kit (modem/superhub) ? You might want to post up your power levels unless you've had a look at them and there fine.
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:44   #8
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

It all comes in the one cable. You don't need an extra cable for TV.
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:48   #9
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

That's good news then, thanks! There doesn't seem to be a splitter already there, it comes straight from outside into the wall mount attenuator.

It is the 50Mb service, and the speeds seem fine (6MB/s).

Here are the stats:

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power SNR Docsis/EuroDocsis locked
Locked QAM256 200 55616000 Kbits/sec 298750000 Hz 11.6 dBmV 41.4 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 201 55616000 Kbits/sec 306750000 Hz 11.4 dBmV 41.5 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 202 55616000 Kbits/sec 314750000 Hz 11.0 dBmV 40.9 dB Hybrid
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown


Upstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power
Locked ATDMA 4 20480 Kbits/sec 35800000 Hz 38.7 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:52   #10
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Your power levels are high mate. They need to be lower. You need an attenuator, the tech should of checked this regardless but even more so because its a new install!!

Post up a speedtest result > http://www.speedtest.net/
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:55   #11
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

You are lucky that the installer chose to do this. Technically an easement (legal right usually attached to the legal title of the neighbouring property) is needed for you to get a service that passes through the private landholding of another. If you neighbour wishes to sell their property, or simply wants to do something to tidy up the "multituide of wires", they can require the cables to your property to be removed, and indeed if they become aware of the potential problems to their property's title may well require it anyway.
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Old 30-08-2011, 23:58   #12
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Here is one I've just taken:



What are the disadvantages of having power levels too high?
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Old 31-08-2011, 00:08   #13
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

ok that looks good but your levels need to be lower. I'm annoyed a tech has left you with high levels, its a new bloody install!! It can be unstable mate. You need an attenuator.

Get on the blower tomorrow during the day and speak to someone via 150, you have got a VM home phone with your package right? They will probably send out another tech.. tell him about the levels, he should put an attenuator before the cable goes into your superhub. He can also put in a splitter for future use if you decide to use other VM services. The splitter would lower the level alone, I'm surprised he has neither put a splitter or an attenuator.
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Old 31-08-2011, 00:16   #14
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
You are lucky that the installer chose to do this. Technically an easement (legal right usually attached to the legal title of the neighbouring property) is needed for you to get a service that passes through the private landholding of another. If you neighbour wishes to sell their property, or simply wants to do something to tidy up the "multituide of wires", they can require the cables to your property to be removed, and indeed if they become aware of the potential problems to their property's title may well require it anyway.
Yes, it is a worry that they could chop off the wire with no ramifications (other than my ire!). The installer himself suggested that it be done this way, and we didn't think of it at all until he mentioned it.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry View Post
ok that looks good but your levels need to be lower. I'm annoyed a tech has left you with high levels, its a new bloody install!! It can be unstable mate. You need an attenuator.

Get on the blower tomorrow during the day and speak to someone via 150, you have got a VM home phone with your package right? They will probably send out another tech.. tell him about the levels, he should put an attenuator before the cable goes into your superhub. He can also put in a splitter for future use if you decide to use other VM services. The splitter would lower the level alone, I'm surprised he has neither put a splitter or an attenuator.
Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow (I do have the phone package as well). I'm not sure they'll do anything though as it isn't playing up.

Potentially silly question: is there anything 'dangerous' about having the power levels too high? Should I be unplugging the Superhub when I leave the house? The last thing I want to do is burn down my neighbour's house after they've been so accommodating.
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Old 31-08-2011, 00:29   #15
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Re: 'Not financially viable'!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
Yes, it is a worry that they could chop off the wire with no ramifications (other than my ire!). The installer himself suggested that it be done this way, and we didn't think of it at all until he mentioned it.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------



Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow (I do have the phone package as well). I'm not sure they'll do anything though as it isn't playing up.

Potentially silly question: is there anything 'dangerous' about having the power levels too high? Should I be unplugging the Superhub when I leave the house? The last thing I want to do is burn down my neighbour's house after they've been so accommodating.

no it won't cause a fire... the Tech Suport agent can see if your power levels are out and will dispatch a tech if they feel it's going to cause problems.
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