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Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
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Old 02-08-2017, 19:41   #256
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
but vhs and betamax were overtaken and replaced by stealing movies off the internet

will there be the theft of fuel/power option from these charging points
'Theft' from customers probably. Charging electric vehicles not stay cheaper than alternative fuels for long.
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Old 02-08-2017, 20:03   #257
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Make cars pack up if you drive them for less than 2 miles. Might cure us of diabetes and being a fat lazy generation too.
I see you occasionally think outside the box, Mr K.
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Old 02-08-2017, 20:50   #258
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Whatever options there are, installing the required infrastructure is going to be a massive task and those involved will want to be sure they have some realistic prospect of a return on their money. With all the usual governmental dithering and regulatory burdens (e.g. health & safety, planning etc.) to be considered I can see this turning into a costly debacle. It takes a whole lot longer to implement ideas than to come up with them and there's a real risk that by the time it's done the technology installed is obsolete.
We have to upgrade the infrastructure anyway. Oil is running out and will become more expensive the closer to get to that point. We're running these things on a resource which is finite, polluting and comes from volatile sources which makes the supply of it insecure. We can replace this with energy that is flexible, can be renewable, can be clean, more efficient and produced nationally. It's entirely logical.

It does take a while, we have a while.

As for it being obsolete well it's more likely to be done so by driverless cars than something replacing electricity as a medium. The production of electricity or it's final delivery method is easier to swap around.
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Old 02-08-2017, 21:14   #259
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
but vhs and betamax were overtaken and replaced by stealing movies off the internet

will there be the theft of fuel/power option from these charging points
They were overtaken by many things initially DVDs for sale or rented via LoveFiilm then Sky Movies, Netflix, Google Play etc.
Stealing movies came relatively recently in the timeline and only has a fraction of the market compared to services like Netflix and Sky Movies. Stealing digital content is easier than physical content.
Subscription models like Netflix are probably the likely route for electric cars, possibly combined with buses and even access to electric bikes. Interesting times ahead but with the potential for lots of job losses in the transport and automobile sectors.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Whatever options there are, installing the required infrastructure is going to be a massive task and those involved will want to be sure they have some realistic prospect of a return on their money. With all the usual governmental dithering and regulatory burdens (e.g. health & safety, planning etc.) to be considered I can see this turning into a costly debacle. It takes a whole lot longer to implement ideas than to come up with them and there's a real risk that by the time it's done the technology installed is obsolete.
What will the petrol stations do? I guess many have closed down in cities as the price of land made them unviable. You would think that the BPs of this world might want to enter the recharging market but with driverless cars, maybe country pubs? will enter the market.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:26   #260
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
We have to upgrade the infrastructure anyway. Oil is running out and will become more expensive the closer to get to that point. We're running these things on a resource which is finite, polluting and comes from volatile sources which makes the supply of it insecure. We can replace this with energy that is flexible, can be renewable, can be clean, more efficient and produced nationally. It's entirely logical.

It does take a while, we have a while.

As for it being obsolete well it's more likely to be done so by driverless cars than something replacing electricity as a medium. The production of electricity or it's final delivery method is easier to swap around.
It's the infrastructure which is the problem unlike a petrol station which from a very small site can refuel hundreds of vehicles fully and within a few minutes. We're going to need to install sufficient on road charge points at every address which doesn't have space for their own, not to mention workplaces, public buildings etc. That's going to be massively costly and take years. It's that investment in time and money which risks being undermined or rendered needless by possible advances in alternative technology in the meantime. As I said, getting stuff installed in the ground is what takes the time and costs all the money to build and maintain. Who's going to pay for that unless there's a decent return on the investment? Either we pay through taxes or the prices we pay for our electricity or probably both. Either way, the carrot of cheap car charging is a convenient illusion for those who're forcing change. They also have to replace all the tax derived from fuel sales from somewhere else - guess where...
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Last edited by Osem; 03-08-2017 at 10:29.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:40   #261
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
It's the infrastructure which is the problem unlike a petrol station which from a very small site can refuel hundreds of vehicles fully and within a few minutes. We're going to need to install sufficient on road charge points at every address which doesn't have space for their own, not to mention workplaces, public buildings etc. That's going to be massively costly and take years. It's that investment in time and money which risks being undermined or rendered needless by possible advances in alternative technology in the meantime. As I said, getting stuff installed in the ground is what takes the time and costs all the money to build and maintain. Who's going to pay for that unless there's a decent return on the investment? Either we pay through taxes or the prices we pay for our electricity or probably both. Either way, the carrot of cheap car charging is a convenient illusion for those who're forcing change. They also have to replace all the tax derived from fuel sales from somewhere else - guess where...
i think investors will be nervous to put new infrastructure in place in case it is superseded by another technology rendering their investment void ,chances are nothing will happen and when the day comes we will just drop off a cliff edge and transport will grind to a halt
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:11   #262
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
i think investors will be nervous to put new infrastructure in place in case it is superseded by another technology rendering their investment void ,chances are nothing will happen and when the day comes we will just drop off a cliff edge and transport will grind to a halt
I think some investors will be nervous, which is why they need a nudge here and there. I know this isn't a retrospective approach, but in Leeds as part of the planning process all new residential properties that have dedicated parking spaces with the property will require 1 charging point per property, while communal car parking will need 1 charging point for every 10 spaces. In addition the communal parking will need 'cable enabled bays' so extra charge points can be added later as and when required.

I know there's been some resistance but at the end of the day if installing a charging point during construction makes a development unprofitable then the developer really needs to ask if they're in the right business!!

Just because it's not headline news doesn't mean things aren't happening behind the scenes (I'm sure Leeds are not working in isolation). I know some people are trying very hard to find any reason to have a moan, but these would be the people shouting the loudest if the oil stopped flowing and there was nothing there to take it's place - especially if we'd known for decades that the end of oil was coming!!


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Old 03-08-2017, 11:54   #263
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth View Post
I think some investors will be nervous, which is why they need a nudge here and there. I know this isn't a retrospective approach, but in Leeds as part of the planning process all new residential properties that have dedicated parking spaces with the property will require 1 charging point per property, while communal car parking will need 1 charging point for every 10 spaces. In addition the communal parking will need 'cable enabled bays' so extra charge points can be added later as and when required.

I know there's been some resistance but at the end of the day if installing a charging point during construction makes a development unprofitable then the developer really needs to ask if they're in the right business!!

Just because it's not headline news doesn't mean things aren't happening behind the scenes (I'm sure Leeds are not working in isolation). I know some people are trying very hard to find any reason to have a moan, but these would be the people shouting the loudest if the oil stopped flowing and there was nothing there to take it's place - especially if we'd known for decades that the end of oil was coming!!


Cheers


Dave
Is that all new builds in Leeds Grim ? I'm in Leeds too and work is sited in the middle of a new build. I haven't seen any charging points at the houses nearest to me although I haven't particularly looked out for them (until now). Sounds a good idea tho'.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:40   #264
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by daveeb View Post
Is that all new builds in Leeds Grim ? I'm in Leeds too and work is sited in the middle of a new build. I haven't seen any charging points at the houses nearest to me although I haven't particularly looked out for them (until now). Sounds a good idea tho'.
In the guidance link lower down this page:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/residents/Pa...rking-SPD.aspx

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Old 03-08-2017, 14:26   #265
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
i think investors will be nervous to put new infrastructure in place in case it is superseded by another technology rendering their investment void ,chances are nothing will happen and when the day comes we will just drop off a cliff edge and transport will grind to a halt
Transport for commercial purposes won't; transport for the individual might, which is why it is better to embrace the change to electric. That the change is cleaner is a bonus; for most people, retaining a personal means of transport ought to be their priority.

Go electric or get a bike; the choice is yours. Stinky old combustion isn't on the table.
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Old 03-08-2017, 14:38   #266
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth View Post
In the guidance link lower down this page:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/residents/Pa...rking-SPD.aspx

Cheers

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Ta for that. Good to see
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Old 03-08-2017, 17:41   #267
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Transport for commercial purposes won't; transport for the individual might, which is why it is better to embrace the change to electric. That the change is cleaner is a bonus; for most people, retaining a personal means of transport ought to be their priority.

Go electric or get a bike; the choice is yours. Stinky old combustion isn't on the table.
I'm doing neither of those things. Go inefficient electric if you like, and dice with death on your bike if that gives you a thrill.

I'm going for tried and tested petrol cars for as long as possible, and if I have the option of a hydrogen fuelled car when I'm forced to do the other thing, then that's what I will get.

We have until 2040 to figure that one out, and I dare say used petrol cars will be around for a lot longer. No need for me to worry, then.
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Old 03-08-2017, 18:10   #268
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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I'm doing neither of those things. Go inefficient electric if you like, and dice with death on your bike if that gives you a thrill.

I'm going for tried and tested petrol cars for as long as possible, and if I have the option of a hydrogen fuelled car when I'm forced to do the other thing, then that's what I will get.

We have until 2040 to figure that one out, and I dare say used petrol cars will be around for a lot longer. No need for me to worry, then.
Pollution was never going to be an issue for anyone with an "I'm alright Jack" mentality.

Given that oil reserves are finite, pollution is killing us and we don't know if a hydrogen option will ever become available, what is your advice to someone who is in their teens/early twenties?

There is indeed no need for you to worry; but don't you worry for them?
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Old 03-08-2017, 18:14   #269
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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Pollution was never going to be an issue for anyone with an "I'm alright Jack" mentality.

Given that oil reserves are finite, pollution is killing us and we don't know if a hydrogen option will ever become available, what is your advice to someone who is in their teens/early twenties?

There is indeed no need for you to worry; but don't you worry for them?
suck it up i had to
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Old 03-08-2017, 18:26   #270
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Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

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suck it up i had to
Yeah, sod 'em. Sadly .
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