Huge fire at West London tower block

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Facts:- The manufacturers made claims that it could used above 18m. Suppliers reiterated that. It was even listed in the product selector part of the Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA) website. The design of how the insulation was to be used was bad, regardless of what type was used. I looked at the plans. No fire barriers between the window frames and the insulation.

From the Celotex website.
On the face of it, no reason to suggest it was the wrong product to use.

It wasn't the wrong product to use. It. Quite simply wasn't.

It is only when you read in further in another document you get this.
As for the suggestion of cost cutting being a factor, I also checked and compared prices. For one supplier as an example the FR5000 in the original plans would currently cost £755.32 for 23.04sq m but the RS5000 that was used(confirmed by the manufacturer) is £1282.65 for 23.04sq m. That is 70% more.

Nothing indicating that the cladding was :

Illegal
Didn't meet standards
Wasn't adherent to building refs

The fact that a lesser specification panel was used than originally specified is totally irrelevant. The other panel would only have been suggested at the behest of the client.

Then it would have been ensured that it met all the standards and regulations.

This is also not a class war as Corbyn would like to promote. This cladding will have been used universally.
This why the current testing regime is helping no one.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It wasn't the wrong product to use. It. Quite simply wasn't.



Nothing indicating that the cladding was :

Illegal
Didn't meet standards
Wasn't adherent to building refs

The fact that a lesser specification panel was used than originally specified is totally irrelevant. The other panel would only have been suggested at the behest of the client.

Then it would have been ensured that it met all the standards and regulations.

This is also not a class war as Corbyn would like to promote. This cladding will have been used universally.
This why the current testing regime is helping no one.

It did meet standards, IF AND ONLY IF, certain precautions were taken with any design. That amounts to encasing the flammable insulation with non-flammable materials. Even then the restrictions are for insulation above 18m. As if buildings and/or floors below than 18m are any less of a problem. A 7 storey building could easily go up on flames in the same way where a fire starts on the 1st floor. 6 floors is still a lot of potential deaths.

[Osem]

I see Mayor Khan is quick to demand emergency measures for Kensington & Chelsea but has very little to say about Camden (or any of the other Labour boroughs) where a similarly catastrophic problem could so easily have arisen and the council seem to have done very little about it until the Grenfell Tower fire forced their hand.

This is pathetic party politics once again but just what you'd expect from him. If he's going to highlight local authority ineptitude there's plenty evidence in Labour run boroughs and he can't blame it all on the Tories.

One of the councillors interviewed just now responded to the question as to why the residents have had their rent deducted yesterday with indignation that the question was even asked!

Originally Posted by Osem

I see Mayor Khan is quick to demand emergency measures for Kensington & Chelsea but has very little to say about Camden (or any of the other Labour boroughs) where a similarly catastrophic problem could so easily have arisen and the council seem to have done very little about it until the Grenfell Tower fire forced their hand.

This is pathetic party politics once again but just what you'd expect from him. If he's going to highlight local authority ineptitude there's plenty evidence in Labour run boroughs and he can't blame it all on the Tories.

Well LBC had as tenant from Grenfell Towers on this morning saying Tenants had been ignored for years.

Another was having their rent stopped still.

And worse still when the tenants started a blog to say how bad things were there the council sent a letter threatening legal action, the councillors here systematically ignored their own tenants, which makes them rotten in my opinion.

Oblivious of which political party shameful.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Well LBC had as tenant from Grenfell Towers on this morning saying Tenants had been ignored for years.

Another was having their rent stopped still.

And worse still when the tenants started a blog to say how bad things were there the council sent a letter threatening legal action, the councillors here systematically ignored their own tenants, which makes them rotten in my opinion.

Oblivious of which political party shameful.

Yep both political parties are guilty not just there but in many places IMO.

Originally Posted by denphone

Yep both political parties are guilty not just there but in many places IMO.

Yes and the difficulty now with Kenisngton and Chelsea at a time when they now need leadership they are now rudderless.

So need somebody at the helm and soon.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Yes and the difficulty now with Kenisngton and Chelsea at a time when they now need leadership they are now rudderless.

So need somebody at the helm and soon.

Rumour is they could send be sending in commissioners in Kensington and Chelsea.

Originally Posted by denphone

Rumour is they could send be sending in commissioners in Kensington and Chelsea.

Just been on LBC that the minister involved is going to give them time to elect their own before any possible intervention.

Here is some more news from the scandal that is Grenfell Tower.

The Tenant Management Group commissioned its own fire report for £250.000 from an ex fireman who advised them under a loop hole not to tell the London Fire Brigade of its failings ,and because the council had set up a TMG it was also not subject to the freedom of information act.

Shortcut to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-failings.html

Also the head of the housing had his own property development company and was investigated twice.

Shortcut to: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...hment-10722834

Rock Feilding-Mellen was probed after Kensington and Chelsea Council approved a scheme to lease a library building to a prep school at which his children were on the waiting list.



Something very rotten in this borough.

[nomadking]

1) Payment of rent has nothing whatsoever to do with the council.
2) The renovations had nothing whatsoever to do with 2012.
3) The problems were with the design of the renovations, so nothing whatsoever to do with any fire safety report that had been done or would be done.

Pathetic nonsense.

Residents in adjoining blocks who had to move out because they do not have water or electricity are also still having money taken by standing orders.

Standing orders are the responsibility of the PAYER NOT THE PAYEE. It is up to the tenants to cancel them. Whoever receives the rent CANNOT. Direct debits are the other way around.

Are those on housing benefit going to have it stopped and their claim closed? Bet they're be happy they complained when they see the end result. Nothing but problems starting a new claim.

Originally Posted by nomadking

1) Payment of rent has nothing whatsoever to do with the council.
2) The renovations had nothing whatsoever to do with 2012.
3) The problems were with the design of the renovations, so nothing whatsoever to do with any fire safety report that had been done or would be done.

Pathetic nonsense.

We shall see a damming report that is not made available to the London Fire Brigade a consultant who is paid to tell the council to keep their mouth shut , the report could not be accessed by any freedom of information request.

He has obviously taken legal advice if I were you I would wait before declaring it pathetic , as it shines a light on the culture of secrecy in Kensington and Chelsea , this guy was prepared to hide a fire report from even the brigade that had to go in and rescue people if it went up.

And he was still their fire consultant when the building went up.!

Any luck he will get his collar felt .

Are you involved with the investigation yourself you seem to have inside information before any inquirey that it was definitely the renovations.

[nomadking]

The issues were largely easily fixable or would be resolved by the renovations, so why the need to tell anybody? There was NO legal requirement to send it to anybody. Still absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with recent events. The tenant management organisation has nothing whatsoever to do with the council, especially councillors. It is separate from them.

[papa smurf]

Grenfell Tower illegal subletting amnesty announced by Sajid Javid


Grenfell Tower residents who were illegally subletting will not face prosecution, Communities Secretary Sajid Javid has said.

The Cabinet Minister said the move was guided by a concern that "loved ones still missing are identified".

The protection from prosecution applies to anyone coming to authorities with information about people who were in their flats at the time of the fire.

Anecdotal evidence from residents has indicated that people living in the tower block may have been unlawfully subletting their properties, and that they are reluctant to come forward and report others are missing because of the fear of reprisal.

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...javid-10934448

[nomadking]

So how is this amnesty going to work? Will those there illegally be rehoused? Will those illegally subletting out their flat be allowed to get yet another flat?