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Huge fire at West London tower block
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Old 15-06-2017, 10:48   #31
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

I hope the Firefighters get some kind of recognition for what they did. Bravery beyond the call .. respect to them.
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:02   #32
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Just a few weeks ago Corbyn's cronies were telling us how they'd not be making political capital out of the Manchester attack in the immediate aftermath. That approach didn't last long did it. It was just too big an opportunity to have another dig at the Government before the facts could either corroborate or contradict their claims. Nasty people like Livingstone who have a long history of causing insult regardless of the circumstances. Anyone would think disasters never happened on their watch and they always learned the lessons regardless of minor details like cost, practicality etc...

We have a huge legacy of decades old tower blocks in the UK, what did Labour do about these tower blocks during their 13 years in office? Did they modernise them all? Did they stop at nothing to remove every possible risk factor from high rise living? Why didn't they insist that sprinkler systems were universally installed and retro-fitted when they were running the show? Does anyone really think that had this not happened and Corbyn been elected that he'd have immediately set in place a huge nationwide programme to tackle this sort of thing? Where was that commitment on such a pressing issue in his manifesto? This is nothing but the sort of political muckraking and opportunist point scoring that Labour specialise in and frankly anyone who seriously believes they'd have done anything different is deluded.

If it turns out, as it seems, that the major problem here was an unforeseen issue with the type of cladding and other materials used on this refurbishment how on earth is that the Government's fault? Presumably the materials will have passed all the relevant tests required by the agencies responsible for such matters and been given the green light so what more could have been done until this happened and exposed the reality that in a certain, perhaps highly unlikely, set of circumstances this could occur? What has Theresa May got to do with any of this except for the fact that she's a target for some very desperate and nasty people?

This world is full of disasters waiting to happen and if our government dedicated itself to eradicating very possible risk the UK would grind to a halt. In the real world judgements have to be made and things like cost v. risk considered. Yes it's all very well people jumping on the bandwagon demanding this that and the other be done but when they're asked to pay the higher prices, bear the increased taxes and suffer the inevitable disruption, regulatory burdens etc. etc. they whine about it. How many people can't even be bothered to ensure fire doors are shut in their buildings? I've been in plenty where the residents jam them open for their convenience. What can HMG do about that I wonder? In an ideal world we'd all have nice detached houses with nice safe gardens, sadly we live in the real world and there's nothing any government can do to remove every iota of risk in our lives.
There have clearly been failures here. We need to calmly see who is responsible and what could have been done to stop it. I agree it's too early to assign blame but this will likely be government, national or/and local, failures. Were warnings given? Were they heeded? Would better regulations help stop similar failures in future?

Let's wait and see what happens.
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:06   #33
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Met Police confirm 17 dead with further fatalities expected.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y-latimer-road
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:13   #34
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Absolutely, cutting the funding budget by 40% can only have helped the situation, same as closing 10 fire stations in London and cutting 50% of that boroughs fire services will of only helped.
Show me evidence. If there's evidence I'll back it.

But until then, keep your speculation and theories where they belong.

---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------

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Let's wait and see what happens.
That's what we should be doing, that's what Corbyn should be doing instead of mouthing off with no evidence.
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:23   #35
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Show me evidence. If there's evidence I'll back it.

But until then, keep your speculation and theories where they belong.

That's what we should be doing, that's what Corbyn should be doing instead of mouthing off with no evidence.
Totally agree, using this tragedy, when we don't even know the full facts and some people doing the usual pathetic political point scoring from their armchair, is totally disgusting and shows the lack of morality.
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:38   #36
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

As I understand it the firebrigade were on site in 6 minutes. How would more funding improved this response? Just a cheap shot on the back of a tragedy.
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Old 15-06-2017, 12:46   #37
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Of course Labour have never cut anything have they? Nobody's ever died, been injured or suffered as a result of anything Labour have done, failed to do or anything they've had to cut/scale back.

If Labour were so concerned about fire risks in old unsafe tower blocks they could have made the retro-fitting of sprinkler systems a legal requirement years ago. Why didn't they do it when they had that huge parliamentary majority for over a decade and were spending money like there was no tomorrow? It's typical of the usual suspects here to jump on the nasty party, anti-Tory, bandwagon when they have nothing at all to say about the failure of their preferred party to tackle the massive problems they have a habit of highlighting when in opposition but do precious little about when in power.

Last edited by Osem; 15-06-2017 at 12:54.
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Old 15-06-2017, 15:23   #38
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

I've been mainly listening to this all unfolding on the radio and must say I haven't yet heard any mention of any official presence other than the front line emergency services. There's understandably a lot of chaos on the scene with large numbers of well meaning volunteers trying to do their bit etc. but seemingly nobody really overseeing what's going on and organising the relief effort on the ground. Surely someone in officialdom ought to be co-ordinating all this and if they're not, why not?
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Old 15-06-2017, 15:28   #39
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

In America they send out the National guard to help with things but we don't seem to have any type of organised group helping and organising things here.
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Old 15-06-2017, 16:15   #40
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Show me evidence. If there's evidence I'll back it.

But until then, keep your speculation and theories where they belong.

---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------



That's what we should be doing, that's what Corbyn should be doing instead of mouthing off with no evidence.
If you'd had to throw your child to safety I'm sure you'd have questions you wanted answering immediately rather than wait for a public enquiry to be concluded and it's recommendations ignored like with the lakanal house inquest and what I offered wasn't speculation or theories but facts, how relevant they are remains to be seen

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
As I understand it the firebrigade were on site in 6 minutes. How would more funding improved this response? Just a cheap shot on the back of a tragedy.
According to a fireman earlier they used to respond in under five minutes
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Old 15-06-2017, 17:13   #41
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
If you'd had to throw your child to safety I'm sure you'd have questions you wanted answering immediately rather than wait for a public enquiry to be concluded and it's recommendations ignored like with the lakanal house inquest and what I offered wasn't speculation or theories but facts, how relevant they are remains to be seen

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------



According to a fireman earlier they used to respond in under five minutes
Well, according to the London Fire Service reports, the response time for the last couple of years is fairly static (around five and a half minutes).

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/Docume...ce-2015-16.pdf Page 28.
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Old 15-06-2017, 18:05   #42
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
If you watch the video on this page you have to wonder how more have not died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-engl...t-london-flats
Apparently someone has just said they might never get a final figure of how many died in this tragedy but the figure in these coming days is likely to rise to not that far short of three figures sadly.
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Old 15-06-2017, 18:08   #43
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Well, according to the London Fire Service reports, the response time for the last couple of years is fairly static (around five and a half minutes).

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/Docume...ce-2015-16.pdf Page 28.
Think he was talking pre austerity...
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Old 15-06-2017, 19:24   #44
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

I may be wrong but there doesn't seem to be much interest amongst the great and the good for rehousing some of these unfortunate people. Wasn't long ago that all manner of lefty luvvies and politicians were telling everyone how they'd happily house some refugees. It'd be a bit odd if our own needy citizens weren't worthy of similar assistance wouldn't it though so I'm sure they'll be queueing up to do so shortly.
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Old 15-06-2017, 19:32   #45
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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
I may be wrong but there doesn't seem to be much interest amongst the great and the good for rehousing some of these unfortunate people. Wasn't long ago that all manner of lefty luvvies and politicians were telling everyone how they'd happily house some refugees. It'd be a bit odd if our own needy citizens weren't worthy of similar assistance wouldn't it though so I'm sure they'll be queueing up to do so shortly.
Every family from Grenfell Tower that needs to be rehoused will be rehoused locally, housing minister Alok Sharma tells MPs.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...b0d5ab311e8064
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