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The future for linear TV channels
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Old 20-01-2015, 17:41   #16
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by muppetman11 View Post
The BBC have already said they'll possibly make certain content available on iplayer before its aired on linear , Sky already does this with the first episode of most of its shows via Sky On Demand and Sky Go.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see more content made available via On Demand early , possibly even full series in one go that said this is more to appease the younger audience who prefer On Demand/Online viewing than to replace linear.
I hope so as you don't need to pay the TV tax for on demand stuff
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Old 20-01-2015, 17:42   #17
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
It will never happen, because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

VOD is great for people who want that choice. It is an inconvenience for those that do not.

TV schedules are a simple, elegant solution to the problem of what to watch when you come home from work, slump in front of the TV and can't be bothered to make any choices beyond switching it on and seeing what's on the first page of the EPG. To those people, increas choice would be a problem, not a solution.
Spot on Chris.
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Old 20-01-2015, 19:15   #18
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
I hope so as you don't need to pay the TV tax for on demand stuff
For now. IMO, if the BBC are trying to talk up their online/streaming services then it is only with a view to extending the tv tax to cover it.
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Old 20-01-2015, 19:46   #19
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

As many have said linear will continue on , the two will coexist along side each other.

It seems more and more players are looking to get into original content only today we've seen Sony PlayStation announce a new original , Youtube have also announced its desire and Amazon Instant have also confirmed they'll move into movies.
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Old 20-01-2015, 19:58   #20
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by andy_m View Post
For now. IMO, if the BBC are trying to talk up their online/streaming services then it is only with a view to extending the tv tax to cover it.
How are they going to enforce it considering there are plenty of ways to watch content online. If they use some form of login that is so easy to get around and there are plenty of channels transmitting stuff from the bbc that are overseas
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Old 20-01-2015, 21:45   #21
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
There has been debate on these forums about whether streaming and on demand services will ever replace linear TV channels. One of the things that has often been said is that there will always be a need for live television programmes, the implication being that you cannot show live stuff on demand.[/I]
Who said you can't show live stuff on demand, its hardly new....? The first live on demand show was a boxing match on Sky Box Office and that was probably 20 years ago.

As for linear tv, it will always be around in some form, but I would turn things around a bit and say that linear tv shows will always be around. What I mean by this is that it is the tv show/film/content that is the most important not who broadcasts it or streams it.

If Amazon somehow got the rights to stream Coronation Street live, I'd imagine Amazon would get a "few" new subscribers. Of course not everyone likes soaps or has internet access, but millions do and would go when they can get their favourite show. If Amazon then got the rights to Emerdale and Ex Factor and other top ITV shows, that would be the end of ITV. The broadcaster is not important, it is content that is king and the people who are behind the content, especially the writers/creators of it.

Another obvious example being Game Of Thrones, which has never been shown on normal tv, yet is the most talked about show of recent years. Breaking Bad another example, which has never been shown in the UK on any channel. People go where the shows are.

I expect things will eventually shift towards portals where writers and actors come together with funding via p2p lending bypassing traditional broadcasters including the current new kids on the block like Netflix and Amazon. And their shows will be put on these portals for everyone to see.

Oh and as for the new BBC magazine show, its all been done before. There's nothing new except you'll have people tweeting in, or commenting on facebook, or calling in live via Skype. Not Earth shattering by a long shot.
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Old 20-01-2015, 22:30   #22
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Breaking Bad's earlier episodes were shown on FX (now Fox) and 5 USA in the UK I believe before being dropped.
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Old 20-01-2015, 22:38   #23
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post

If Amazon somehow got the rights to stream Coronation Street live, I'd imagine Amazon would get a "few" new subscribers. Of course not everyone likes soaps or has internet access, but millions do and would go when they can get their favourite show. If Amazon then got the rights to Emerdale and Ex Factor and other top ITV shows, that would be the end of ITV. The broadcaster is not important, it is content that is king and the people who are behind the content, especially the writers/creators of it.

(snip)

I expect things will eventually shift towards portals where writers and actors come together with funding via p2p lending bypassing traditional broadcasters including the current new kids on the block like Netflix and Amazon. And their shows will be put on these portals for everyone to see.
Except of course that ITV owns Coronation Street and Emmerdale, and isn't ever going to sell them.

Besides that, the idea of writers and actors collaborating then pitching to distributors already happens. You can see it every time one of them has an executive producer credit on the closing titles. Private production companies pitch to distributors all the time. Endemol devises game shows, sells their formats round the world and re-produces them for each customer. Shine Group and its subsidiaries create all kinds of drama (Spooks, Ashes to Ashes, Broadchurch to name but three) and pitches the ideas to distributors. The thing is, the distributors are always, with extremely few exceptions, TV broadcasters. The production companies want this, because the broadcasters have the big audiences and therefore the big budgets.

Showing a programme at 7pm on a midwinter Saturday evening, when almost the entire country is sitting in front of the TV and, thanks to its habit of watching linear TV throughout the week, has been suitably primed to expect fireworks, is always, always going to result in a big, reliable return on the money invested in its production. Putting it on a VOD platform on the other hand, is as good as hiding it from all but the most ardent fan. I would love to know how many views Ripper Street has had, for example, having been ditched by the BBC and then revived by Amazon as a publicity stunt for its Prime instant video service. I bet it won't be nearly as many as it gets when the BBC broadcasts it later this year.
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Old 20-01-2015, 23:26   #24
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Companies such as Endemol and Shine aren't tiny little companies owned by the writers but are owned by the very distributors you mention, which in their case is Murdoch. I agree Murdoch and co are the ones with the big bucks, hence my remark about future funding of shows/films through p2p lenders.

In the future you might get a writer such as Carlton Cruze (creator of Lost) going onto a sci-fi portal which has Lost on it and he pitches to the subscribers of the site for funding for a new show he wants to do bypassing the big studios altogether. If a million subscribers donate a dollar, he gets enough dosh to make a decent pilot which may then be made into a full tv show. If the portal is worldwide, it will be far larger than any national tv channel.

I don't see linear tv going altogether, but I think things will change. You cite a programme on a Saturday at 7pm which gets large audiences. If you compare the size of audiences for prime time shows these days as to what they were thirty years ago, its clear which way things are going. It is very unlikely that any tv show today could get an audience of 20 million people which used to be the norm thrity years ago.

I agree with your Ripper Street example, but that's the same as what we have now with hundreds of linear tv channels and new shows are difficult to find amongst them all. I think better software will sort this out (super tivo??) to guide viewers to new shows.

I know ITV owns the shows I mentioned, but many of its popular shows beyond Corrie and Emmerdale are not owned by ITV and in most cases are either owned either by Murdoch, Sony, or one of the other US studios.
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Old 20-01-2015, 23:52   #25
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Linar tv will remain but what is happening is the way we are watching tv is changing.
We will see more services along the way of the upcoming dish sling tv (usa only), sony vue tv (us and uk) Sky already offer Skygo on a monthly ticket without the need to be a Sky subscriber, tv is changing no doubt about that.
We will see more and more cable cutters and linar tv will only be a handful of channels plus live sports, however the way we watch live sports is changing too with the Premier league already considering a streaming service with 3pm kick off matches, wwe network, eurosport player.
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Old 21-01-2015, 00:07   #26
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Companies such as Endemol and Shine aren't tiny little companies owned by the writers but are owned by the very distributors you mention, which in their case is Murdoch. I agree Murdoch and co are the ones with the big bucks, hence my remark about future funding of shows/films through p2p lenders. .
Er no, in the case of Shine or Endemol operating in the UK, the "distributors" are BBC, ITV and Channel 4, who "distribute" via broadcast, and then via DVD, a concept which has been pitched to them, then commissioned and paid for by them.

Shine devises shows like Ashes to Ashes (actually its subsidiary, Kudos, was responsible for that one), and pitches it at the BBC, which either rejects or commissions it. The programme doesn't get made unless someone has commissioned it because it is too damned expensive to do otherwise - hence the major problem with the arrangement you're proposing. Nobody is ever going to produce something like Lost based on the interest of a collective of sci fi fans. The up front costs are eye-watering. Only a major TV broadcaster has that kind of money, or possibly a major online company with a massive advertising budget.
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Old 21-01-2015, 00:58   #27
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

I'd be very surprised if the DVD sales of Ashes to Ashes went into the BBC's coffers rather than Murdoch who is the owner of the show. The BBC may well have put up the dosh to commission it and show it on their channel initially, but they do not own it and are not the distributor. They pay for first run rights and that's it.

Regarding new shows like the next Lost, excuse the pun here, but I think you're thinking linear here.

Imagine a sci-fi portal with hundreds of millions of subscribers/viewers. They could easily fund big budget shows. Say if the site was charging a fee similar to Netflix, the site might directly fund shows if there was enough votes cast. I think the funding could come come via several different methods, but I'd imagine the old billionaire codgers who run the big media companies/studios will still be in control for some time yet.

Edit: Just had a look who does deal with the DVDs for Ashes to Ashes and its neither the BBC or Murdoch, but a company called Entertainment One whom I've never heard of until now.
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Old 21-01-2015, 10:04   #28
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I'd be very surprised if the DVD sales of Ashes to Ashes went into the BBC's coffers rather than Murdoch who is the owner of the show. The BBC may well have put up the dosh to commission it and show it on their channel initially, but they do not own it and are not the distributor. They pay for first run rights and that's it.

Regarding new shows like the next Lost, excuse the pun here, but I think you're thinking linear here.

Imagine a sci-fi portal with hundreds of millions of subscribers/viewers. They could easily fund big budget shows. Say if the site was charging a fee similar to Netflix, the site might directly fund shows if there was enough votes cast. I think the funding could come come via several different methods, but I'd imagine the old billionaire codgers who run the big media companies/studios will still be in control for some time yet.

Edit: Just had a look who does deal with the DVDs for Ashes to Ashes and its neither the BBC or Murdoch, but a company called Entertainment One whom I've never heard of until now.
Entertainment One has DVD distribution expertise that neither BBC Worldwide nor Kudos can presumably be bothered to develop in-house.

You really are understating the BBC's role in the production of a show like Ashes. At the time of commissioning, the show's success is not guaranteed. The first-run broadcaster is taking an immense financial gamble and will seek to offset that by securing as many income streams from it as possible (even at the BBC, where these days they are expected to show they're getting value for the licence fee). In return for its investment, the broadcaster is getting repeat rights and, I guarantee you, a cut of DVD sales. The prominent "as seen on the BBC" flash (including logo) on the front of even the most recent re-issue of the Ashes box set is the giveaway.

Your sci fi portal idea does indeed require imagination. It really is a fantasy. There is simply no way such an organisation could raise the kind of funds required, nor could it provide the kind of executive oversight required to keep production on time and on schedule. Individuals with that sort of expertise are not cheap.
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Old 21-01-2015, 13:50   #29
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by vincerooney View Post
Do they need to be replace it though? Couldn't both just co exist? Bbc has iplayer, Netflix exists, 4 on demand etc? Bbc launched a new show purely on iplayer didn't they recently? But I think whilst that's good for some people they'll always prefer a live tv channel.

Both could and probably should co exist?
Hi, Vince. Yes, they could co-exist. However, others think that eventually most people will take the view that it is easier to pick the programmes you want to see, and view them without all the ads at a time which is convenient to them.

By the time the vast majority of people get used to doing just that, the number of linear channels will decrease due to the declining demand.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

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How is this different? You can watch a number of live channels via TV anywhere anyway. They are just making a daft statement about how they have embraced the internet. I can't see the BBC or ITV letting us binge watch our favourite shows like Netflix do. Imagine how quickly Broadchurch 2 would be ruined for people who have Facebook/Twitter etc but could not see it all in one go. The ending of Broadchurch would be discussed straight away on the internet and at work the day after. They will just continue drip feed the episodes. Just how are ITV and C4 supposed to survive without advertising? Also how on earth are BBC etc going to film large chunks of their programmes in a small period of time just to stick them online, they have much more content to produce than Netflix. You must also remember there are millions and millions of young families who can not afford the luxury of VOD providers, or the content bundled in with the packages Sky, VM etc, who rely on linear TV. I am in my 30's and I do not see linear TV disappearing in my lifetime. Don't get me wrong, I watch very little live, I manage my recordings just so I can skip the adverts. I know plenty of people who still watch TV live though.
Ah, you are assuming that under the scenario painted that when a series like Broadchurch becomes available, you will be able to see every episode straight away.

However, I suspect that we will move to a new schedule each day for each channel, with a catch up facility (or maybe all programmes would move to the cloud for future viewing, replacing the need to record).

So each day, each broadcaster would list all the programmes that will be shown on that day, and from the appointed time would become available to view. This would be so much more convenient for people who do not view at conventional times (eg night workers and shift workers).

Linear TV may survive, I agree, but I think new ways of watching TV will become prevalent over time and the way we view now will seem pretty primitive.

The main issue will be how these programmes are funded in the future. It will be for the broadcasters to work out new funding streams, but I would imagine that subscriptions will bring the majority of the income for the commercial channels. This can be boosted by other income streams, such as programme sponsorship, advertising on programme guides, product placement, etc.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

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Who said you can't show live stuff on demand, its hardly new....? The first live on demand show was a boxing match on Sky Box Office and that was probably 20 years ago.

As for linear tv, it will always be around in some form, but I would turn things around a bit and say that linear tv shows will always be around. What I mean by this is that it is the tv show/film/content that is the most important not who broadcasts it or streams it.

If Amazon somehow got the rights to stream Coronation Street live, I'd imagine Amazon would get a "few" new subscribers. Of course not everyone likes soaps or has internet access, but millions do and would go when they can get their favourite show. If Amazon then got the rights to Emerdale and Ex Factor and other top ITV shows, that would be the end of ITV. The broadcaster is not important, it is content that is king and the people who are behind the content, especially the writers/creators of it.

Another obvious example being Game Of Thrones, which has never been shown on normal tv, yet is the most talked about show of recent years. Breaking Bad another example, which has never been shown in the UK on any channel. People go where the shows are.

I expect things will eventually shift towards portals where writers and actors come together with funding via p2p lending bypassing traditional broadcasters including the current new kids on the block like Netflix and Amazon. And their shows will be put on these portals for everyone to see.

Oh and as for the new BBC magazine show, its all been done before. There's nothing new except you'll have people tweeting in, or commenting on facebook, or calling in live via Skype. Not Earth shattering by a long shot.
Some Forum members have questioned how live sport can be shown via on demand. I am just making the point that it is perfectly possible, just as you can view a programme currently being broadcast and recorded on your STB.

I have not suggested that these programmes will all be taken up by the likes of Amazon and Netflix. You will still find them under the TV station's own portal.

I know the BBC magazine show idea has been done before, but you need to ask yourself why the BBC are making a big thing of this. There is an agenda!

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

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Showing a programme at 7pm on a midwinter Saturday evening, when almost the entire country is sitting in front of the TV and, thanks to its habit of watching linear TV throughout the week, has been suitably primed to expect fireworks, is always, always going to result in a big, reliable return on the money invested in its production. Putting it on a VOD platform on the other hand, is as good as hiding it from all but the most ardent fan.
Not if all the channels can be accessed only by on demand! In fact, you've probably just made the case for abolishing linear TV!
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Old 21-01-2015, 14:19   #30
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

You can already do your suggestion , set a recording leave it 10 mins and watch time shifted fast forwarding the ads.

How can live sport be On Demand , I think your getting confused with live sport broadcast and being streamed online at the same time , this is already done by Sky Sports and BT Sport plus many others.
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