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Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a week
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Old 14-02-2017, 09:24   #46
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Well here the signs on the shared pavement cycle-ways are designated into two with a white dotted line or the two are completely separate where possible...and the appropriate signage.But not every pavement is a cycle way which some cyclists refuse to acknowledge.

And Kursk before you get all hoity toity I am a cyclist too but I obey the bylaws..
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Old 14-02-2017, 09:59   #47
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post

Even so, I'd bet the main highway is a lot more dangerous than the odd oncoming rat runner.
So you obviously think it's fine for those cyclists to break the law either going the wrong way on a one way street and/or cycling on the FOOT path.
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Old 14-02-2017, 16:28   #48
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

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Originally Posted by Mr Banana View Post
I am but don't worry, now I know what you see where you stand on the cyclist front
In English please?

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Originally Posted by Mr Banana View Post
you will not see another response to any of your posts from me
Oh no, a banana with a bruised ego. Sorry that stamping of your feet didn't produce the entrapment you'd hoped for.

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Btw, expect a smack in the gob, if you ever jump a red light when I am crossing the road.
Really? And will you then tell the other infants at school how tough you are?

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
The onus is on cyclists to avoid pedestrians since there is no restriction to stop pedestrians walking in 'cycle ways' .A marked out track on a footpath does not mean it is solely for cyclists
Thank you, but we don't need advice from white van man (who are a danger to just about everyone on the roads).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
Well here the signs on the shared pavement cycle-ways are designated into two with a white dotted line or the two are completely separate where possible...and the appropriate signage.But not every pavement is a cycle way which some cyclists refuse to acknowledge.

And Kursk before you get all hoity toity I am a cyclist too but I obey the bylaws..
Hoity toity? Will that make my eyes water? Like I said, I'm afraid you're going to have to come to terms with sharing space.

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
So you obviously think it's fine for those cyclists to break the law either going the wrong way on a one way street and/or cycling on the FOOT path.
I think it's fine for cyclists to take the action needed to preserve their lives whilst town planners catch up with the re-design of road/pavement space to manage the needs of all users.
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Old 14-02-2017, 17:40   #49
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Off-topic, bickering posts removed yet again from this thread. Members who have a major issue with each other need to use the ignore facility and stop taking threads off-topic.

If this trend continues and I have to act again in this thread or any other thread, some member(s), will be getting a forced forum break.

Pack it in!
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Old 14-02-2017, 19:26   #50
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

The roads were built for cars, 99% of cyclists understand this and ride accordingly. The videos we see online of cyclists going on the inside of lorry's or buses are prats!!!!

When I ride on the road I understand the environment on which I am riding, its seems some cyclists do not understand this. If you're a cyclist using a public highway please respect all rules of the road. Running red lights, ignoring people on zebra crossings, riding on the pavement when it suits you shows a massive lack of intelligence. 99% of Cyclists understand sharing space on the public highway and riding on cycle highways. 1% should not be allowed to drive cars, ride bikes, or even be allowed out the house lol.

I ride, I love riding, and at times I wish all cars were banned and we could ride on the roads all the time. I also want ALDI to be banned because of its horrific "food miles" polluting our planet. But it seems paying 75p for pasta sauce is more important. Hence cars will never be banned, Hence Cyclists who cannot grasp the highway code will always get killed.

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Old 14-02-2017, 19:41   #51
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post

Thank you, but we don't need advice from white van man (who are a danger to just about everyone on the roads).
Clearly you do,judging by your posts in this and other cycling threads you need to go and have long read of some factual literature to familiarise yourself with the laws of the road and who's the white van man you keep referring to ? cos it's not me and even if it was "white van man"doesn't really exist anymore since the new rules require cpc training on top of any other compulsory training like HGV licensing ,but i accept there will always be bad drivers just the same as there will always be bad cyclists . Cyclists need to accept the fact that they are in the minority on the roads and that they need to accept much more responsibility for their own safety
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Old 14-02-2017, 19:47   #52
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Tonight I popped in to my local chippie, outside taking up the pavement almost block the entrance where a gang of the usual idiot cyclists, all had no lights no helmets and wearing black.

As I drove home around the corner they flew across the road forcing a car to break, they deserved to eat the cars bonnet.

Had this happened I would have given the driver my dashcam footage, and recommend that he sue the arse of them.
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Old 14-02-2017, 19:49   #53
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Dash cam is your friend where these loonies are involved.
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Old 15-02-2017, 00:33   #54
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnglishMan View Post
The roads were built for cars
Myopic transport planning, but things are changing. Roads are funded through general taxation, to which cyclists contribute, so the funding by cyclists should be reflected in the facilities provided.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Clearly you do
In your somewhat discredited opinion .

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
no helmets and wearing black.
Helmets are not compulsory nor is there a specified form of cycling apparel.

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
forcing a car to break
Into how many pieces?

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Dash cam is your friend where these loonies are involved.
Helmet cam nails motorist loonies too. Touché mon ami.
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Old 15-02-2017, 16:29   #55
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Speaking from my experiences as a 'cager' and also from riding a motorbike.

When riding the motorbike.I ensure that I'm in fully armoured clothing, that could be two piece textiles or leather jacket + armoured kevlar jeans, gloves, helmet etc. I'm acutely aware that if i get hit by or I hit something that there is a very good chance of me becoming an organ donor. and I therefore ride as defensively as possible. I will where possible however filter to make progress etc.

It's the defensive riding that seems to be missing from most cyclists thought patterns. That they have priority over all other traffic

Why isn't there a minimum standard for bikes to be on the road? some of the ones in York resemble death traps!
Why isn't the wearing of armour/protective equipment compulsory on roads?
Why should cyclists who use the road system not have some sort of insurance in place?
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Old 15-02-2017, 22:51   #56
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Speaking from my experiences as a 'cager' and also from riding a motorbike.

When riding the motorbike.I ensure that I'm in fully armoured clothing, that could be two piece textiles or leather jacket + armoured kevlar jeans, gloves, helmet etc. I'm acutely aware that if i get hit by or I hit something that there is a very good chance of me becoming an organ donor. and I therefore ride as defensively as possible. I will where possible however filter to make progress etc.

It's the defensive riding that seems to be missing from most cyclists thought patterns. That they have priority over all other traffic

Why isn't there a minimum standard for bikes to be on the road? some of the ones in York resemble death traps!
Why isn't the wearing of armour/protective equipment compulsory on roads?
Why should cyclists who use the road system not have some sort of insurance in place?
You know that I too am a motorcyclist and it is true that defensive riding has taught us much about roadcraft, what to wear, where to position, road camber, anticipation etc. These skills are absent in some cyclists but also absent in some motorists. The latter might have no experience of real vulnerability on the roads and this can lead to an unintentionally cavalier attitude to other road users and, for that matter, pedestrians.

As regards minimum standards, this is left to the rider; the check being an unfit machine puts you in obvious danger.

As regards protective clothing, bicycles are self propelled; too much equipment is impractical and would probably discourage use. That would be a disaster health wise and impending gridlock would quickly become imminent. I'm not sure that motorists appreciate that cyclists take pressure off the transport system. If we all take to cars nobody will be going anywhere.

As regards insurance, the third party insurance of motorists covers cyclists. Some might want to take out optional cycling insurance but that's personal choice.
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Old 16-02-2017, 06:35   #57
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
As regards insurance, the third party insurance of motorists covers cyclists. Some might want to take out optional cycling insurance but that's personal choice.
So if a cyclist ignores a red light on a pelican crossing and ploughs into a pedestrian causing injury which results in them being unfit for work, which motorists insurance do they claim from?
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Old 16-02-2017, 09:10   #58
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
You know that I too am a motorcyclist and it is true that defensive riding has taught us much about roadcraft, what to wear, where to position, road camber, anticipation etc. These skills are absent in some cyclists but also absent in some motorists. The latter might have no experience of real vulnerability on the roads and this can lead to an unintentionally cavalier attitude to other road users and, for that matter, pedestrians.

As regards minimum standards, this is left to the rider; the check being an unfit machine puts you in obvious danger.

As regards protective clothing, bicycles are self propelled; too much equipment is impractical and would probably discourage use. That would be a disaster health wise and impending gridlock would quickly become imminent. I'm not sure that motorists appreciate that cyclists take pressure off the transport system. If we all take to cars nobody will be going anywhere.

As regards insurance, the third party insurance of motorists covers cyclists. Some might want to take out optional cycling insurance but that's personal choice.
Hey Kursk

I agree that the skills we have learnt and developed whilst riding motorbikes are missing in other motorists. However I don't believe you can use the fact to justify it missing from the large proportion (that i have seen) of cyclists.

Surely a basic compulsory form of training, (think CBT but for pushbikes and without a need to renew) could only be a good thing ? Lets face it at the moment you can get on a pushbike and ride on most roads in the country (some of them being exceptionally lethal) without any form of road craft whatsoever.

Back onto the subject of protective clothing, whilst I'm not suggesting for one second that the level of protection is required is the same as we wear it again would make sense to have some basics. e.g. armoured gloves, a helmet & perhaps something like a back protector. CE1 approved armour whilst not great for motorbike riders would allow a reasonable degree of freedom whilst offering protection to the push bike rider. Clothing should be abrasive resistant to some degree possibly through the use of Aramid fibres.

regarding the point you made earlier in the thread (I think it was about general taxation paying for the roads and cyclists contribute to that. If cyclists are sharing our roads then they need to ensure that their bikes are in road worthy condition I dont think it should be left to the rider to make that call. Perhaps a push bike MOT which checks things like bearings, gears, brakes and tyres and introduces a minimum standard needs to be considered.

Finally, insurance. Whilst the vast majority of incidents involving cyclists are with them as the non fault party there are still times when a cyclist is liable and therefore they should hold their own insurance.

I have no issues with the majority of cyclists who ride in a safe manner. I guess the above post is a long winded way of saying that as with driving a car, or riding a motorbike there should be minimum standards which are required to be met both for people as the rider and the equipment that they use.


Ride safe !
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Old 16-02-2017, 15:13   #59
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
So if a cyclist ignores a red light on a pelican crossing and ploughs into a pedestrian causing injury which results in them being unfit for work, which motorists insurance do they claim from?
It's possible to hypothesise ad infinitum.

What happens if a pedestrian steps out in front of a cyclist who is simply riding along? Should all pedestrians have insurance too as the potential perpetrator of accidents?

What about the lethal buggy owner who bashes your ankles and causes you to trip? Insurance?

What about wheelchair users? Are they insured? What if when crossing the road they cause an accident because they move less freely than the ambulant?

Do we need to insure all our kids who are the most unpredictable users of just about everything?

Does my neighbour need insurance in case he drops a paint pot on my head when he's up a ladder?

Insurance benefits the money men. Do you want them to be creaming in policy payments for occurences that seldom happen? We don't do things that way in the UK but we'll end up that way if we're stupid enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Hey Kursk

I agree that the skills we have learnt and developed whilst riding motorbikes are missing in other motorists. However I don't believe you can use the fact to justify it missing from the large proportion (that i have seen) of cyclists.

Surely a basic compulsory form of training, (think CBT but for pushbikes and without a need to renew) could only be a good thing ? Lets face it at the moment you can get on a pushbike and ride on most roads in the country (some of them being exceptionally lethal) without any form of road craft whatsoever.

Back onto the subject of protective clothing, whilst I'm not suggesting for one second that the level of protection is required is the same as we wear it again would make sense to have some basics. e.g. armoured gloves, a helmet & perhaps something like a back protector. CE1 approved armour whilst not great for motorbike riders would allow a reasonable degree of freedom whilst offering protection to the push bike rider. Clothing should be abrasive resistant to some degree possibly through the use of Aramid fibres.

regarding the point you made earlier in the thread (I think it was about general taxation paying for the roads and cyclists contribute to that. If cyclists are sharing our roads then they need to ensure that their bikes are in road worthy condition I dont think it should be left to the rider to make that call. Perhaps a push bike MOT which checks things like bearings, gears, brakes and tyres and introduces a minimum standard needs to be considered.

Finally, insurance. Whilst the vast majority of incidents involving cyclists are with them as the non fault party there are still times when a cyclist is liable and therefore they should hold their own insurance.

I have no issues with the majority of cyclists who ride in a safe manner. I guess the above post is a long winded way of saying that as with driving a car, or riding a motorbike there should be minimum standards which are required to be met both for people as the rider and the equipment that they use.
Ride safe !
Most people learn to ride at a young age and get parental training in safety (not just for cycling!). It works. Anyone taking up cycling later will know roads are dangerous and it will be part of their decision as to whether they choose to cycle or not.

What is the stopping distance at 50 mph on a wet road and in potentially icy conditions?

No-one reading this post will know the answer because all that theory is forgotten and because all road conditions cannot be predicted (it won't stop some members scurrying off to the highway code to try and find a smartass answer though!). Cycle training is real-time road experience which is why we need other road users to take special care of our safety. Learning a few metronomic hand signalling skills in a classroom won't protect us nor will it make good cyclists out of bad ones.

Protective clothing will protect you if you fall off your motorbike at speed. Protective clothing will not protect a cyclist hit by a car, lorry or van. Especially those little plastic helmets that can cause rotational neck injury; the jury is still out on that one.

Bike MOT - bicycles are simple machines, easily maintained. Do you remember the first time you had a bike for christmas or whatever? Was the occasion ruined because your Dad forgot its MOT, or rider insurance, or its pedal tax, or because he forgot your kevlar body restraint, helmet, gauntlets, shinguards, chest brace and condom? Cycling is supposed to be fun and healthy. We need people to cycle so let's not make it harder.

See above re insurance but, also, did you ever ride someone's else's bike to the shops? Would you have preferred to walk because you didn't have the required insurance? Would you like to miss out on riding in deserted country lanes because you don't have insurance and all the other paraphernalia? All that stuff will discourage cycling and that is crazy.

I know bikes and cars don't mix but I wish someone (and this is not aimed at you) would come up with workable alternatives instead of bleating that "bikes get in my way" all the time. Besides, you ride a motorbike...who most endangers you, cyclists or car drivers? I know the answer to that one: extra training for motorists.

I'm throttling back; ride safe mate!
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Old 16-02-2017, 16:22   #60
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Re: Hundreds attend protest after 3 cyclists killed on streets of London in under a w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
It's possible to hypothesise ad infinitum.

What happens if a pedestrian steps out in front of a cyclist who is simply riding along? Should all pedestrians have insurance too as the potential perpetrator of accidents?

What about the lethal buggy owner who bashes your ankles and causes you to trip? Insurance?

What about wheelchair users? Are they insured? What if when crossing the road they cause an accident because they move less freely than the ambulant?

Do we need to insure all our kids who are the most unpredictable users of just about everything?

Does my neighbour need insurance in case he drops a paint pot on my head when he's up a ladder?

Insurance benefits the money men. Do you want them to be creaming in policy payments for occurences that seldom happen? We don't do things that way in the UK but we'll end up that way if we're stupid enough.
Injuries aren't seldom at all

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3986796.ece

I'd have thought you'd be very keen to protect other more vulnerable road users, regardless of if their stupid, reckless, thoughtless, irresponsible behaviour causes collisions with cyclists
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