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Crisis in the NHS
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Old 11-06-2017, 18:26   #286
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.
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Old 11-06-2017, 18:33   #287
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.
l think you will find again that both parties are as culpable as each other as it would be nice for once that the NHS was not used as a political football which sadly both parties use it as..
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Old 11-06-2017, 19:08   #288
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
PFI was a Labour initiative, wasn't it? They should not be allowed to dodge that truth.

Frankly I don't care whether the private or public sector run it, as long as we get better value for money, and provided that it remains free at the point of delivery.

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------


Why does anyone care so much who runs the NHS? It's a ridiculous debate, given the obvious inefficiency that we have to contend with while it remains as it is.
PFI was a rebranding of the Conservative PPP scheme by the Labour Party. Both are costing us dearly but with an effective two-state system, both parties will be forgiven and re-elected. In fact, the same way that you seem to gloss over the Conservative Party's PPP suggests many have already forgiven the Conservative Party.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.
What figures do you have to demonstrate your assertion?
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Old 11-06-2017, 19:12   #289
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
What you are not seeing is that the private sector can take a profit from the efficiencies they introduce whilst still saving money for the taxpayer.

The PFI debacle was a poorly thought out Labour initiative which did nothing to limit ongoing costs. It just shows the level of inexperience and business know-how in the Labour Party that resulted in this state of affairs.
I can tell you now Old Boy university NHS trusts are already run similar to private buissness I work for one if you can show me the private sector can save cash on our staffing levels I will eat my x ray trolley.!

Let me tell you now private profit and public service are not good bedfellows.

As you have seen with the PFI which incidently was first drawn up by John Major and the last tory government before Labour.
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Old 11-06-2017, 19:21   #290
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
I can tell you now Old Boy university NHS trusts are already run similar to private buissness I work for one if you can show me the private sector can save cash on our staffing levels I will eat my x ray trolley.!

Let me tell you now private profit and public service are not good bedfellows.

As you have seen with the PFI which incidently was first drawn up by John Major and the last tory government before Labour.
PFI had/has its place, the trouble is that Brown used it to excess in order to buy votes whilst keeping huge capital spending off the books and thereby allow him to continue pushing the 'prudence' line. I have no idea who negotiated those contracts but they ought to have been shot.
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Old 11-06-2017, 22:00   #291
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
PFI had/has its place, the trouble is that Brown used it to excess in order to buy votes whilst keeping huge capital spending off the books and thereby allow him to continue pushing the 'prudence' line. I have no idea who negotiated those contracts but they ought to have been shot.
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:09   #292
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.
On that, I think we are in total agreement.
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Old 12-06-2017, 18:12   #293
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
EU nurse applicants drop by 96% since Brexit vote
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40248366

Well that's going to help with the staffing crisis. Time the Govt. got off it's incompetent backside and gave reassurance to essential EU workers.
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Old 12-06-2017, 21:11   #294
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40248366

Well that's going to help with the staffing crisis. Time the Govt. got off it's incompetent backside and gave reassurance to essential EU workers.
Even if it didn't do that, it could revise the 85-page nationality application form to make it easier for hardworking EU nationals to become British citizens.
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Old 12-06-2017, 21:46   #295
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Mrs K, a nurse , is interested in a job move and has made a few initial enquiries on the many many jobs available. The phone hasn't stopped ringing with people asking her when she's going to apply. It's getting to the point when nurses can hold their own interview panels of potential employers. Wards in the same hospital are poaching staff from each other. Not a healthy state of affairs. Trying to persuade her to become an Agency nurse for more money but the silly woman has principles.
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Old 13-06-2017, 12:53   #296
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Mrs K, a nurse , is interested in a job move and has made a few initial enquiries on the many many jobs available. The phone hasn't stopped ringing with people asking her when she's going to apply. It's getting to the point when nurses can hold their own interview panels of potential employers. Wards in the same hospital are poaching staff from each other. Not a healthy state of affairs. Trying to persuade her to become an Agency nurse for more money but the silly woman has principles.
I love nurses (fond memories ).

My sincere regards to your wife. She is a gem and I wish her well in her job move
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Old 13-06-2017, 13:40   #297
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.
Things can always get worse.

Well according to some folks around here we shouldn't be talking about PFI any more because it's all 'irrelevant' to the current situation. Yeah and it'll continue to be 'irrelevant' for the many decades the NHS (aka taypayer) is going to have to pay the vast sums of money required under these awful contracts.
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Old 13-06-2017, 13:45   #298
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
The total UK PFI debt is over £300bn for projects worth only £55bn. This means that nearly £250bn will be spent swelling the coffers of PFI groups.
Not sure how that equates to £2bn a year.
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Old 13-06-2017, 16:07   #299
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Not sure how that equates to £2bn a year.
The £2 billion per year is for the NHS PFI debts - the overall PFI debt is about £11 billion per year, I think.
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