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U.S President: Donald Trump
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Old 09-02-2017, 14:38   #121
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Try telling that to the corporate lobbyists.
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Old 09-02-2017, 14:49   #122
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Is he doing what he wants ? No, so all you just posted there is largely irrelevant.

He is being critical of the judges actions, just like you or I would be when a Judge hands the wrong sentence to someone who is clearly guilty of something. You cannot kill off free speech, just because:

A) You don't like the person.
B) You don't like what is said.
Perhaps this might make things clearer...

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...-but-there-are
Quote:
115

Executive orders give Trump lots of power, but there are limits
© Getty
The first weeks of President Trump's presidency has seen a wave of executive orders signed, all of which are controversial. Among other actions, the president has proposed making true on his campaign promise to "build the wall" along the U.S. southern border and, more recently, issued a travel ban on refugees coming from seven Muslim-majority nations.

There has been much written by the media, political scientists, members of the legal community and other pundits about the power and influence of executive orders. While I do not wish to minimize the importance of this power of the president, I believe that a fuller description and explanation of the limits on executive orders deserve to be aired, as well.

Despite the usual description of executive orders as a "unilateral power" of the president, this description is somewhat overblown.

First, few — if any — executive orders are self-executing. At least as importantly, there are many checks on the reach of executive orders outside the executive branch, and at least one major check within the executive branch.

In this article, I discuss four important limits on executive orders: the federal judiciary, Congress, the public and the Office of Legal Counsel. It is true that executive orders carry the force of law, but they are far less permanent than laws because they can be overturned with ease by subsequent presidents. And, like legislation passed by Congress, they are subject to checks and balances built into the governing system described in the Constitution....

,,,The federal judiciary consistently reviews executive orders, and while the vast majority of executive orders are not overturned by federal courts, some have been ruled unconstitutional by federal courts.

In the near-immediate wake of attempted enforcement, District Court Judge Ann Donnell issued a stay on Trump's travel ban.

The second and third limits on presidential power are Congress and the public, and because of the representative nature of the legislative branch, these limits often go hand-in-hand.

Famously, President Obama — like Trump — used an executive order to attempt to fulfill a campaign promise; in Obama's case, to close the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, within a year of taking office.

Despite the president's action, Congress prevented this action by refusing to fund the effort. The effort was overwhelming, with a 90-6 vote in the Senate. Individual members of Congress spoke out publicly about preventing Obama from shifting detainees to domestic prison sites.
The President does not have unilateral powers, the other arms of the Government are there to provide checks and balance (just like the President does to them).

Everyone has free speech, but everyone else has the right to criticise what they say - however, as the President, what he says has much more import than just your every day voter, and he needs to recognise that.

Even his Supreme Court nominee was uncomfortable with his comments about the Judge.
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Last edited by Hugh; 09-02-2017 at 14:53.
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Old 09-02-2017, 15:19   #123
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Perhaps this might make things clearer...

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...-but-there-are

The President does not have unilateral powers, the other arms of the Government are there to provide checks and balance (just like the President does to them).
Hugh, I am well aware of the limits to Presidential powers but I will say it again, he is not doing what he wants just like that, what he plans to do will obviously have to go through Congress and he should know that by now and will have been advised of it, do you not think he will have a team of senior advisers around him with note books and clipboards?

He might be asking, can I do this, can I do that ? And they will be advising him of all sorts of things he can do legally and what he cannot do, he obviously has to act within the realms of the law and the Constitution, because he took an Oath to preserve, protect and defend it, working outside this and doing things illegally, will obviously get him impeached.

The Executive Order he signed to restrict access to the US for 90 days, went through legal hurdles before it was commenced, a Judge in Boston actually upheld his Order, yet two Court rulings have since suspended it. So one Judge thinks his order was in check but another two don't.

With a healthy Republican majority in both chambers of Congress, I don't think he will have an issue of getting things passed, where as Obama did, but I do accept not all Republicans are behind him and they could side with the Democrats on some of his other things he may want to get passed.

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

Even his Supreme Court nominee was uncomfortable with his comments about the Judge.
Yes, I know I read about it this morning but he has to get through his nomination, he has to be seen to have objective views, even against the President, and that he would have to publicly state he disagrees with Trump's remarks on the Judge(s), hence why this is news.
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Old 09-02-2017, 15:29   #124
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Let's get one myth sorted out. Trump is no lover of free speech. He has banned US organisations from discussing abortions except in special circumstances.
"In one of his first acts as president, Donald Trump introduced a ban on funding for any international organization that, anywhere in its health care programs, provides or even discusses abortions with patients, other than in cases of rape, incest or life endangerment."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/o...als-death.html
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Old 09-02-2017, 16:11   #125
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Let's get one myth sorted out. Trump is no lover of free speech. He has banned US organisations from discussing abortions except in special circumstances.
"In one of his first acts as president, Donald Trump introduced a ban on funding for any international organization that, anywhere in its health care programs, provides or even discusses abortions with patients, other than in cases of rape, incest or life endangerment."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/o...als-death.html
Let's get this myth that the liberal left keep trumpeting about (pun intended) out of the way.

He has not put a ban on free speech, as a believer in Pro-Life he has removed funding from organisations that promote abortions except in the case of "rape, incest or life endangerment".

Sounds a lot different now doesn't it.
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Old 09-02-2017, 16:17   #126
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Last Warning

If I continue to see people insulting other members, warnings will start to fly.

You are free to disagree, you are not free to keep insulting each other.
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Old 09-02-2017, 16:42   #127
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Let's get this myth that the liberal left keep trumpeting about (pun intended) out of the way.

He has not put a ban on free speech, as a believer in Pro-Life he has removed funding from organisations that promote abortions except in the case of "rape, incest or life endangerment".

Sounds a lot different now doesn't it.
Not really and I'm not sure what the liberal left have got to do with anything.

No one is saying that Trump has banned all free speech. I'm not the kind of person to compare him against dictators as that's daft. But he has prevented US organisations from talking about abortion unless under special circumstances. That is an attack on free speech in my book. But I happily accept that others may not view it as an attack on free speech.
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Old 09-02-2017, 16:50   #128
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Not really and I'm not sure what the liberal left have got to do with anything.

No one is saying that Trump has banned all free speech. I'm not the kind of person to compare him against dictators as that's daft. But he has prevented US organisations from talking about abortion unless under special circumstances. That is an attack on free speech in my book. But I happily accept that others may not view it as an attack on free speech.
But here we go again, he hasn't prevented anyone saying anything about abortion. There has been no attack on free speech.

If you think there has then please share.
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Old 09-02-2017, 17:12   #129
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
But here we go again, he hasn't prevented anyone saying anything about abortion. There has been no attack on free speech.

If you think there has then please share.
I believe I have done just that. The newspaper article I cited said "Known as the global gag rule because it prevents talking with women about the procedure..."

In preventing people taking about abortion, I believe that Trump is attacking free speech.
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Old 09-02-2017, 17:35   #130
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I believe I have done just that. The newspaper article I cited said "Known as the global gag rule because it prevents talking with women about the procedure..."

In preventing people taking about abortion, I believe that Trump is attacking free speech.
You cannot prevent people talking about it but he can withhold funding which is what he has done, that has nothing to do with free speech whatsoever.

Infact, it seems to be a Republican Policy, Ronald Reagan introduced it in 1984, then Bill Clinton god rid, then George W Bush brought it back and then Barack Obama revoked it in 2009.

Quote:
WASHINGTON ― In one of his first acts as president, Donald Trump has reinstated a federal ban on U.S. funding for international health organizations that counsel women on family planning options that include abortion.

The Mexico City policy, also known as the global gag rule, was first put in place by President Ronald Reagan in 1984. It prohibits giving U.S. funding to nongovernmental organizations that offer or advise on a wide range of family planning and reproductive health options if they include abortion ― even if U.S. dollars are not specifically used for abortion-related services.

Since then, the gag rule has been something of a political football, rescinded and reinstated as soon as presidents take office. President Bill Clinton did away with the rule, President George W. Bush reinstated it and then President Barack Obama again revoked it in 2009.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...xx9cl5edrc0udi

Nothing to do with free speech and abortion, women can freely talk about it to their hearts content, they just cannot seek counsel from nongovernmental organizations who might work outside US abortion laws.

But as usual because it's Trump who has done it, he's extra bad.

Give me a break.
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Old 09-02-2017, 17:50   #131
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
You cannot prevent people talking about it but he can withhold funding which is what he has done, that has nothing to do with free speech whatsoever.

Infact, it seems to be a Republican Policy, Ronald Reagan introduced it in 1984, then Bill Clinton god rid, then George W Bush brought it back and then Barack Obama revoked it in 2009.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...xx9cl5edrc0udi

Nothing to do with free speech and abortion, women can freely talk about it to their hearts content, they just cannot seek counsel from nongovernmental organizations who might work outside US abortion laws.

But as usual because it's Trump who has done it, he's extra bad.

Give me a break.
You deserve a break Mick, let's agree on that.
I don't believe Trump is extra bad here - and I've not said he is.
But he is attacking free speech. Those organisations cannot even discuss abortion with women.
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Old 09-02-2017, 17:59   #132
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
But he is attacking free speech. Those organisations cannot even discuss abortion with women.
No he isn't. They can talk about it all they want, they just won't get government funding for it. Call them a charity if you want, nothing to do with free speech, as already outlined.
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Old 09-02-2017, 18:09   #133
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No he isn't. They can talk about it all they want, they just won't get government funding for it. Call them a charity if you want, nothing to do with free speech, as already outlined.
Your statement is at odds with the press report I originally quoted:

"In one of his first acts as president, Donald Trump introduced a ban on funding for any international organization that, anywhere in its health care programs, provides or even discusses abortions with patients, other than in cases of rape, incest or life endangerment."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/o...als-death.html
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Old 09-02-2017, 18:12   #134
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Didn't he also place an EO preventing the EPA from publicly speaking about projects or releasing info, which went against what Obama did.
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Old 09-02-2017, 19:32   #135
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Didn't he also place an EO preventing the EPA from publicly speaking about projects or releasing info, which went against what Obama did.
I'd forgotten about that but you're absolutely correct. It's a bit totalitarian but in case anyone jumps in, I'm not equating Trump to Mussolini.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/u...-moves-in.html
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