Do you agree with plain cigarette packaging?

[richard s]

I disagree with governments telling people how to live their lives. Lets not forget car pollution which kills 13,000 people in this country every year, but this still does not stop us driving our vehicles.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/04april/...estimates.aspx

Originally Posted by richard s

I disagree with governments telling people how to live their lives. Lets not forget car pollution which kills 13,000 people in this country every year, but this still does not stop us driving our vehicles.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/04april/...estimates.aspx

Compared to the 100,000 who die each year from smoking-related diseases, it's hardly in the same ball-park, is it.

If tobacco was discovered today there's no doubt it would go straight on the banned drugs list along with cannabis. Allowing the product to exist, while denying its manufacturers any possibility of marketing it, seems perfectly fair to me.

Originally Posted by richard s

I disagree with governments telling people how to live their lives. Lets not forget car pollution which kills 13,000 people in this country every year, but this still does not stop us driving our vehicles.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/04april/...estimates.aspx

We are taking measures to curb it though. Less fuel efficient cars are taxed more, there is increasing regulatory pressure on car manufactures to improve their cars and a general move in the direction of electric cars.

I have a feeling, pure speculation, that in time we'll learn that pollution from cars has been a lot worse for us that originally believed. If you see a white building in London you'll see how smeared it is with black tar over time for example.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

When l started working at the age of 15, l started smoking to be part of the 'local kids'. When l was told that my father was dying of cancer caused by smoking.

My father passed away, the Drs, told it due to Cancer of the Lings and the main factor was smoking.

That put me off smoking for about 10 years. I started again, only to be part of the 'workplace' smoking, ie canteens full of smokers.

I got a job delivering to a major hospital in Berkshire that dealt with Heart surgery. I went there one day, and saw patients with Heart disease caused by smoking. That put me off for ever.

I have not smoked for 30 years. I don't think its my job to tell someone that you cannot smoke. What annoys me is that shopkeepers, that sell to kids. and they are quite open about it.

Now shops have to have shutters in front of them.

Smoking is a killer, but what the government should be doing is forcing Cigarettes Manufacturers, to pay money into the Health Service.

Wasn't it Marlboro got sued in America, by a Family who got Cancer via smoking. And the family won the case.

Its no good bringing E-cigarette's to help stop you smoking. Its the will power of the person to stop, when they saw what happens to you bottom.

I will always remember speaking with and OAP once, when speaking to him. He had dark Blue Lips. and he said he smoked 90 fags per day. He had just come from the Gp, who told him to cut his daily fag, by 20. He said. If l had the will power, l would not have started in the first place.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Its no good bringing E-cigarette's to help stop you smoking. Its the will power of the person to stop, when they saw what happens to you bottom.

E-cigarettes save lives whether people quit or not.

Nicotine replacement therapy, be it e-cigarettes, gum, patches, whichever, is clinically proven to improve quit rates.

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Smoking is a killer, but what the government should be doing is forcing Cigarettes Manufacturers, to pay money into the Health Service.

Okay. So where do you think the cigarette manufacturers will get the money from to pay into the health service?

Think it might perhaps be from selling cigarettes in the UK?

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I have not smoked for 30 years. I don't think its my job to tell someone that you cannot smoke. What annoys me is that shopkeepers, that sell to kids. and they are quite open about it.

Report them. They are breaking the law.

It is illegal to sell cigarettes or other forms of tobacco or tobacco products, including cigarette papers, to a person under 18 years.
The above offence carries a £2,500 fine in a Magistrates' Court.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Compared to the 100,000 who die each year from smoking-related diseases, it's hardly in the same ball-park, is it.

If tobacco was discovered today there's no doubt it would go straight on the banned drugs list along with cannabis. Allowing the product to exist, while denying its manufacturers any possibility of marketing it, seems perfectly fair to me.

Would alcohol?
http://www.channel4.com/news/alcohol...o-graphic-quiz

'But it's a different story when it comes to hospital admissions: there are a staggering 137 alcohol-related admissions every single hour, compared to 61 for smoking, according to government figures.'

'Smoking has a huge cost to the NHS - an estimated £5.2bn - but boozed-up Britons put a massive dent in the overall economy because of the additional £11bn burden on the criminal justice system. All too often, drinking results in violence, either at home or out on the streets.

'The cost works out at a staggering £1.43m every hour, and according to the report, is enough to keep more than 260,000 police officers on the streets, or 278,000 nurses working in A&E.'

I'm a smoker, and per my previous statements in this thread I know the risks I take and whats likely to happen to me.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the plain packaging or tax on cigarettes.

What i take exception to that something that costs more to the country per hour £2.4m vs £1.7m is seen as morally acceptable and doesn't require the same taxation or regulation as the tobacco industry.

[denphone]

l don't smoke myself but if one wants to smoke then that's their decision but it amazes me that alcohol is still widely advertised and marketed in this country when in my opinion it should be banned just like tobacco adverts and marketing were as both place a significant financial toll on the NHS in this country.

There are fewer than 9,000 alcohol-related deaths per year in the UK Den. It is nowhere near as dangerous as tobacco and, unlike tobacco, you can't be harmed by passive drinking. The two don't equate at all.

[denphone]

Yes you are right Chris but it is still quite a significant drain especially on the NHS A&E departments as there are quite a few people out there who sadly cannot drink in moderation like responsible adults who know exactly when their limit is reached and that's when the damage is done.

Yes, people are harmed and killed by alcohol and it puts a strain on the NHS. The problem is, you seem to be arguing for the same regulations as have been applied to tobacco, despite alcohol causing only 10% of the deaths tobacco does.

Regulations must be proportionate. I suggest that the existing restrictions on how alcohol may be bought and sold and where it may be consumed are already proportionate to the risk.

To add further context to this, obesity is reckoned to cause about 30,000 deaths in the UK each year (I.e. more than three times as many as alcohol). About 9,000 of those deaths are people aged under 65. Obesity is a far more serious problem, yet far less has been done to tackle the availability of cheap, high calorie processed foods.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Yes, people are harmed and killed by alcohol and it puts a strain on the NHS. The problem is, you seem to be arguing for the same regulations as have been applied to tobacco, despite alcohol causing only 10% of the deaths tobacco does.

Regulations must be proportionate. I suggest that the existing restrictions on how alcohol may be bought and sold and where it may be consumed are already proportionate to the risk.

To add further context to this, obesity is reckoned to cause about 30,000 deaths in the UK each year (I.e. more than three times as many as alcohol). About 9,000 of those deaths are people aged under 65. Obesity is a far more serious problem, yet far less has been done to tackle the availability of cheap, high calorie processed foods.

Oh so the issue is the amount of deaths not the cost to the country.......?

Completely agree on the obesity again should be regulated and taxed much more stringently than it is

To quote earlier


'Smoking has a huge cost to the NHS - an estimated £5.2bn - but boozed-up Britons put a massive dent in the overall economy because of the additional £11bn burden on the criminal justice system. All too often, drinking results in violence, either at home or out on the streets.

'The cost works out at a staggering £1.43m every hour, and according to the report, is enough to keep more than 260,000 police officers on the streets, or 278,000 nurses working in A&E.'


So the question begs when the NHS,police etc. Are having their budgets crippled. And there's firm evidence to show that alcoholi in real terms costs the country more than cigarettes (I don't have the figures to hand for obesity but would suggest it's very high also) why are smokers the ones beIng hit the most? Surely it should be all three?

[RichardCoulter]

I'm surprised the Government doesn't encourage smoking(!)

The vast majority of the price of cigarettes is tax. I believe that smokers should pay extra tax towards the increased cost of their healthcare needs and they do.

For each £1 in tax paid on cigarettes only about 20p is required to pay for the extra healthcare.

Smokers tend to die younger, meaning that after paying more tax than the average non smoker, they don't get to draw their pension for very long if at all- an absolute bargain for the Government.

[denphone]

Personally l would ban alcohol advertising on TV as in my own opinion it sets a bad example to younger people and l would also clamp down on certain food and soft drink adverts as well which are aimed at youngsters and children as well as they are very easily influenced in my opinion..

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm surprised the Government doesn't encourage smoking(!)

The vast majority of the price of cigarettes is tax. I believe that smokers should pay extra tax towards the increased cost of their healthcare needs and they do.

For each £1 in tax paid on cigarettes only about 20p is required to pay for the extra healthcare.

Smokers tend to die younger, meaning that after paying more tax than the average non smoker, they don't get to draw their pension for very long if at all- an absolute bargain for the Government.

Now hang on don't come on here talking sense and placing facts in front of a perfectly good arguement

[RichardCoulter]

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