Ukip says babies born to immigrants in the UK should be classed as migrants –

Originally Posted by Chris

Well, thanks to the 'sensationalist' report, we are now discussing it ... even if certain sections of the commentariat are now cynically trying to shut that discussion down by deliberately conflating 'migrant' and 'citizen' and issuing the usual smears about racism.

We're discussing the report and if someone who is born here but has one or more parents who are Foreign born should classified as a migrant. We're not discussing the issue of people obtaining permanent leave to remain by having a child because that doesn't appear to be the purpose of the report.

People are cynical about the report because they're unsurprisingly resentful of the implication that they're migrants in the country where they were born and grew up. They are not. That is not how migrants or immigration is measured, it is not the definition of migrant. We're all migrants if that's how you measure it.

So when you include people who are not migrants by any definition you can reasonably justify in the overall figure of migrants then people will dismiss the report. It is flawed to include them even in population growth as unless both parents are migrants then it's a fallacy to assume that the birth wouldn't otherwise have happened as there is still one person who was born here who could have had a child (just with someone else). I.E Why does someone with a Irish mother and British father get counted as one of these hidden migrants?

[nomadking]

It is about measuring the total impact of immigration.
From 2008

The NHS is spending £350m a year to provide maternity services for foreign-born mothers, £200m more than a decade ago, the BBC has found.
Immigration has raised the birth rate so fast that some units have closed, so that midwives could be moved to areas of urgent need.
...
When Labour came to power, the NHS spent around £1bn a year on maternity services, with one baby in eight delivered to a foreign-born mother.
Ten years on, spending has risen to £1.6bn, with almost one baby in four delivered to a mother born overseas.

And it won't have improved since then.

1 Between 2000 and 2010 births in England increased by over 114,000 – from 572,826 to 687,007. Immigration has been the key factor fuelling this increase: three quarters of the increase in births was to women born outside the UK. Overall, in 2010, over a quarter of all live births in England were to mothers born abroad.
...
2 Midwife numbers have not kept pace with the overall growth in numbers of births because governments before 2010 permitted high levels of net migration without making sure that maternity services received adequate staffing; consequently, there has been an acknowledged severe shortage of midwives for several years which has, in turn, led to concern about the quality of midwife services

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Midwife numbers have not kept pace with the overall growth in numbers of births because governments before 2010 permitted high levels of net migration without making sure that maternity services received adequate staffing; consequently, there has been an acknowledged severe shortage of midwives for several years which has, in turn, led to concern about the quality of midwife services

Coincidentally, I'm sure, in news just announced today the Government post 2010 have continued to permit high levels of immigration and have presided over / necessited cuts to maternity services despite being aware of the potential baby boom challenges.

Uncontrolled immigration and social engineering from the conservative led coalition? What a surprise.

Remember, low paid labour enriches employers, not ordinary citizens.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Coincidentally, I'm sure, in news just announced today the Government post 2010 have continued to permit high levels of immigration and have presided over / necessited cuts to maternity services despite being aware of the potential baby boom challenges.

Uncontrolled immigration and social engineering from the conservative led coalition? What a surprise.

Remember, low paid labour enriches employers, not ordinary citizens.

Link

Dr Dan Poulter, the health minister, said the government was determined to ensure that the maternity workforce was large enough to cope with rising demand, and that a record total of 6,000 midwives are being trained.

Link

The immigration minister, James Brokenshire, insisted that the government had cut migration from outside the EU by nearly a quarter since 2010.
“Uncontrolled, mass immigration makes it difficult to maintain social cohesion, puts pressure on public services and forces down wages.
This government has shut nearly 800 bogus colleges, slashed 45,000 visas from the further education route and cut family visas by nearly a third since it came to power – meaning there are 50,000 fewer migrants coming to the country from outside the EU than there were in 2010,” he said.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Remember, low paid labour enriches employers, not ordinary citizens.

Pity New Liebor didn't consider that when they threw the doors open to uncontrolled immigration, but since they despise the working classes who's surprised?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Pity New Liebor didn't consider that when they threw the doors open to uncontrolled immigration, but since they despise the working classes who's surprised?

Their introduction of the minimum wage was a great success too.

However, it was the Conservative government who signed the UK up to EC / EU immigration and the threat of mass immigration as a result of freedom of movement.

Brokenshire, touting "50,000 fewer migrants coming to the country from outside the EU than there were in 2010" is laughable. Is that supposed to be some sort of victory?

There are still numbers as bad as 2010 arriving - does it matter where they come from?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Pity New Liebor didn't consider that when they threw the doors open to uncontrolled immigration, but since they despise the working classes who's surprised?

Quite and we need to keep reminding some folks about that fact.