Veteran NHS Nurse: Why I'm On Strike Over Pay

[alferret]

Originally Posted by Mr K

What job do you do ? It must have a hell of a lot of responsibility if you think you should earn more than a theatre nurse. A moments loss of concentration for them could cost someone their life and them their job. Is the same true in your job ?

Didn't read my post to well did you?

Originally Posted by Mr K

What job do you do ? It must have a hell of a lot of responsibility if you think you should earn more than a theatre nurse. A moments loss of concentration for them could cost someone their life and them their job. Is the same true in your job ?

The same could be said of a lorry driver, or a bus driver......

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The same could be said of a lorry driver, or a bus driver......

There are many professions where this is true. I design electronic equipment and am very mindful that a lapse on my part could expose large numbers of people to electric shock risk and consequent liability on me.

Indeed I consider this a definition of a professional: If you get it wrong, people die.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

There are many professions where this is true. I design electronic equipment and am very mindful that a lapse on my part could expose large numbers of people to electric shock risk and consequent liability on me.

Indeed I consider this a definition of a professional: If you get it wrong, people die.

That's the problem nurses aren't paid and treated like professionals. People still have this 'Carry On' image of them dealing with bedpans and flowers. They are now often doing jobs that Doctors used to do. Many people never even see a Dr these days as a nurse deals with their care.

However they aren't asking for a massive rise they are asking for 1% which is less than the rate of inflation. i.e. less of a pay cut. Very greedy of them. We'll all be reliant on them one day - just hope they still care by then, that's if they and the NHS are still there at all.

If they don't have an increment (they are already top of the pay band), they will get 1% - if they are getting an increment (usually around 3%), they don't get the 1%.

There are very few jobs in private industry where you get a pay increment just for being there a year.....

[Osem]

Yeah but...

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There are very few jobs in private industry where you get a pay increment just for being there a year.....

Increments have to earned on the successful completion of training and performance related. They are not automatic, do your homework Hugh.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Increments have to earned on the successful completion of training and performance related. They are not automatic, do your homework Hugh.

Do you mean like this?

Is there incremental progression through the pay spines under AfC?

Each pay band or pay range has a number of points. Each year, staff below the maximum point of their pay band or pay range can expect progression to the next highest point.

There are also two points on each pay band, known as gateways when there is an assessment of the knowledge and skills that staff are applying in their jobs.

Pay progression at the two gateways is linked to the demonstration of applied knowledge and skills.

The values of these points increase in steps of around three per cent.

The first gateway in each pay band is after one year in post. The second gateway will vary between pay bands as follows:

• pay band 1 before final point
• pay bands 2-4 before first of last two points
• pay bands 5-7 before first of last three points
• pay band 8 ranges A-D before final point.

Each band has between 6 and 9 points, two of which are linked to applied knowledge and skills, leaving between 4 and 7 automatic increments.....

Hope that helps.

[alferret]

When you enter a profession regardless of what it is surely you have some idea as to pay and pay structure.
If you train to be a nurse are you ignorant of how much they may or may not paid you?
If you train to be a firefighter are you also ignorant to what you get may get paid?
I entered into a profession 30 years ago fully aware of what my pay scale may be and even tho I get just under 21k and I feel like I am worth more, in my profession I am near the top of what my pay scale is in the area I live in.
If you want to earn more learn something new that pays more, don't go on strike and put people lives at risk.
My son-in-law trained in his profession for 3 years and now earns in excess of 75k, not bad for a kid who is 22.
It's a bit late to bitch after the fact.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Do you mean like this?
[/LIST]Each band has between 6 and 9 points, two of which are linked to applied knowledge and skills, leaving between 4 and 7 automatic increments.....

Hope that helps.

You always were good at 'homework' I bet...

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

Originally Posted by alferret

When you enter a profession regardless of what it is surely you have some idea as to pay and pay structure.
If you train to be a nurse are you ignorant of how much they may or may not paid you?
If you train to be a firefighter are you also ignorant to what you get may get paid?
I entered into a profession 30 years ago fully aware of what my pay scale may be and even tho I get just under 21k and I feel like I am worth more, in my profession I am near the top of what my pay scale is in the area I live in.
If you want to earn more learn something new that pays more, don't go on strike and put people lives at risk.
My son-in-law trained in his profession for 3 years and now earns in excess of 75k, not bad for a kid who is 22.
It's a bit late to bitch after the fact.

Some folks clearly feel that they should have a career for life and guaranteed this, that and the other. Sadly, those days are increasingly behind us and union dinosaurs won't stop that process.

[Mr K]

Just hope none of you need to rely on the NHS one day. Even if you're private you're still stuffed if there's no nurses. Pay has been low because they haven't been prepared to go on strike and put patients at risk; even now it's only affecting some outpatient services. Being a female dominated profession probably hasn't helped; we can be grateful they haven't stood up for themselves more as they care about their patients too much.

However i think they are angry that they just don't seem to be valued. My wife is a nurse has been assaulted twice at work; she won't go on strike, ever, I think she's a nutter ! It isn't just another profession, it's a public service which we all rely on.

I still can't get over the hypocrisy of MP's who are happy to accept an 11% rise recommended an independent pay body, but then ignore a 1% rise recommended by a similar independent pay body for nurses.

Originally Posted by Osem

You always were good at 'homework' I bet...

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------



Some folks clearly feel that they should have a career for life and guaranteed this, that and the other. Sadly, those days are increasingly behind us and union dinosaurs won't stop that process.

I was an Intelligence Analyst in the RAF for six years, collecting, analysing, and interpreting information - I was top in my trade promotion course, and was posted to Berlin four months after completing the course (it was normally a two to three year wait)......

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Just hope none of you need to rely on the NHS one day. Even if you're private you're still stuffed if there's no nurses. Pay has been low because they haven't been prepared to go on strike and put patients at risk; even now it's only affecting some outpatient services. Being a female dominated profession probably hasn't helped; we can be grateful they haven't stood up for themselves more as they care about their patients too much.

However i think they are angry that they just don't seem to be valued. My wife is a nurse has been assaulted twice at work; she won't go on strike, ever, I think she's a nutter ! It isn't just another profession, it's a public service which we all rely on.

I still can't get over the hypocrisy of MP's who are happy to accept an 11% rise recommended an independent pay body, but then ignore a 1% rise recommended by a similar independent pay body for nurses.

You perhaps need to examine my posts more closely - I have never said I don't think nurses deserve more money; what I have said is that the increments seem to be ignored/overlooked.

I do, and always have, appreciated the NHS - my sister-in-law spent her entire life as a nurse, starting off in the wards, becoming a mid-wife, then a District Nurse in North Yorkshire, and earlier this year I had a heart attack, and the NHS took excellent care of me.

The challenge is that the wage bill for the NHS is £44 billion, and giving everyone a 3% rise adds nearly £1.3 billion, that has to come from somewhere.

I also agree that MPs shouldn't have, in this time of hardship, an 11% pay rise.

I wasn't arguing with your proposition, just your arithmetic....

Anyway, much as I would love to stay and exchange differing views on statistics, I must be off to be a heartless Tory barsteward at a fund-raising event for our local hospice (St Gemma's) - it's taking place at Elland Road, and normally raises quite a bit for a very good cause.