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Originally Posted by Chrysalis
You not concerned we seem to paying ,uch more per mile than france did?
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I don't know the differences between building a rail network in France and building one in the UK. It isn't the same country, there may be different challenges. I suspect the spending stats have been skewed.
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The fact I have used trains and the service wasnt bad enough that I ever thought it needs billions spent on it. France and Germany have more land mass so arguably it benefits them more. a 20min saving on a journey is nothing significant, There is a few specific scenarios where it could be a saver but typically the person can just catch an earlier train.
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20 minutes can be significant. It can tip a journey from something that is a inconceivable and uncomfortable to something that people don't think twice about doing. More importantly this is simply a step into a national high speed network and when we're reaching places like Manchester then the time saved will really begin to mount up. As I mentioned before it's possible to have a situation where a large amount of the population can comfortably do a return trip to one of these cities and back within a single day.
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The fact some cuts have been made elsewhere and in some cases severely, the merits of business men getting 20mins of their journey time over the vulnerable getting proper care and support.
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But it's dishonest to frame the argument as saving businessmen 20 minutes of their time, that's not what anyone in favour of high speed rail has been making that argument. Again, this is a step towards a national high speed network with Birmingham being a stop along the way to Manchester. We talk of the time saved and how this will be of benefit to commerce and tourism - as well as simply useful to the rest of us.
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More to the point we have had cameron saying we all in it together and a message put out that the country was close to going bust unless sharp action was taken quickly, this hardly supports that message and loses the government a lot of credibility.
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This is being seen as an investment. There is also a difference between one-off expenses, such as building infrastructure, and cutting down on services. The cuts have been aimed at reducing the deficit, this train network would simply add to the debt.
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Trains are already out pricing many people and this will outprice even more. 32billion investment in what will primarily benefit business men who are paying less tax due to tax cuts. The business case is very poor.
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It's not poor. You just say it's poor because your making attacking a strawman. I have also provided evidence that the current high speed network isn't dramatically more expensive than the standard service.