Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Excellent conflation - you seem to be stating that only by allowing unions to make (imho) extremely unreasonable demands will they also be able to defend workers who are being treated unfairly.
You are Bob Crow, and I claim my five pounds....  |
I am not Bob Crow, for example he is anti-EU, I am pro-EU!
And What do you define as extremely unreasonable demands, Af far as I know, Tube Drivers and Public sector wokers are not demanding 7 figure wages or rolls-royces as company cars, not even free Iphones!
---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
If a train crashes or is bombed it can be reached extremely quickly from outside. A driver isn't the panacea of care for the people on the train and if it crashes the chances are the driver is going to be the first victim anyway.
The laws in the UK regarding strikes and unions are far from the strictest in Europe however your posts here quite clearly give your viewpoint and put into context why you feel this way. Above you noted that the law should favour unions and employees which says all that needs to be said.
Regarding the other issues - if my wage is cut I get another job, if my pension is cut I get another job, if I'm made redundant I'm made redundant so must get another job, if I'm unfairly sacked I can take action due to the unfair dismissal process within the law. I'm not entitled to anything from my employer outside of their contractual obligations to me, it's a business arrangement, if the arrangement isn't to my satisfaction it's time to end it.
It's a somewhat different issue with the tube drivers obviously, they know they haven't a hope of getting a job with anywhere near the pay and conditions they have at the moment given their skill levels.
I have never 'done' unions. I do fine, but then I rely on myself to prove my value to employers and regard myself as an asset that provides value to my employer and that they should in return appropriately value me. As soon as I think they don't I go elsewhere.
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What if the train is underground, remember time is important, it is better if there is someone on trains then it is better, if the law changes then the railways and tube will become a muggers paradise!
The trouble is that there are no decent jobs that pay decent salaries or pensions, if fact there are noty many jobs out there anyway and you know what is really band, is that The wealthy are still doing well, they still have high wages and high pensions, deispite that fact they cause the current mess they are in
---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Although it's worth noting that the law requires that any train that goes to any stations that are underground has staff onboard. Essentially to manage the passengers in the event of an emergency. It doesn't, however, require a driver..
The government could change the law so that Union membership is banned for tube drivers though. It could be argued that any public transport drivers are important for the economy..
---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------
It's actually rather disheartening to realise I earn less than the member of staff aboard my DLR train in the morning, yet I have a degree and he (or she) doesn't.
On the plus side, I have a more interesting job.
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They can still do wildcat strikes, and anyway you don't need to ban unions to ban strikes, take the police for example!
---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry
So, if you didn't think that your employer "appropriately valued" you you would simply "go elsewhere" by withdrawing your goodwill and leaving their employ rather than try to negotiate your worth?
Ironically that makes you considerably more militant than those union members whose you are trying to berate in this thread.
Clearly your stated position somewhat undermines your argument vis a vis the supposed selfish actions / industrial action / negotiations by tube drivers in relation to their job security / pay / perceived worth.
Marty, Stuart & Maggy - you appear to be venting angst on the basis that you feel somehow hard done by because according to yourselves there are no tube drivers who have degrees / comparable degrees or that degrees obtained by others are undervalued by comparison. Where have you got this information from?
Take a leaf from Iggy's book and act on a self centred basis by withdrawing your labour with no consideration for anyone else or, alternatively, join a union and negotiate - and if needs be strike - to get what you think you're worth.
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Well said, If onyl more people shared you view point!
---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J
No I'm more peeved by the idea sold to me and my children that a good job with a good wage was possible only with decent qualifications.But when people with little or no formal education earn fantastic wages I get really peeved especially for my daughter who found her first degree could get her no job and so has had to retrain and get a further degree to find that even now there will be no decent remuneration even though she does now have a job.
I guess though that having a job is possibly the best outcome...Pity the 7 years of study haven't brought about a vast financial difference in her income. So yes I annoyed when people who have a decent income in comparison to the rest of society think nothing of inconveniencing the public as frequently as the tube drivers do.
Oh and I very much doubt that there are many degree holders among the tube drivers because that would entail some time devoted to studying at least 3 years minimum.Of course there would be opportunities through OU and they are earning the necessary dosh to pay for the fees.
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Don't blame the unions blame the business and political elite for all this, But I understand what you mean!
---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J
No I'm more peeved by the idea sold to me and my children that a good job with a good wage was possible only with decent qualifications.But when people with little or no formal education earn fantastic wages I get really peeved especially for my daughter who found her first degree could get her no job and so has had to retrain and get a further degree to find that even now there will be no decent remuneration even though she does now have a job.
I guess though that having a job is possibly the best outcome...Pity the 7 years of study haven't brought about a vast financial difference in her income. So yes I annoyed when people who have a decent income in comparison to the rest of society think nothing of inconveniencing the public as frequently as the tube drivers do.
Oh and I very much doubt that there are many degree holders among the tube drivers because that would entail some time devoted to studying at least 3 years minimum.Of course there would be opportunities through OU and they are earning the necessary dosh to pay for the fees.
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Maybe your daughter should join a union