[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Stuart

In practice, yes. In theory no.

That said, even the most diehard areas can change allegiances. My local ward has been staunch conservative since the Borough was created (around 1965). They usually give the conservative candidate a huge lead, even when Labour are polling well, and the conservatives are doing extremely badly. However, in one of the elections in the 90s, the Conservatives did so badly that it was almost a tie between the Lib Dems (who do traditionally come second) and them. So areas can change.

I have to admit, I am not sure who to vote for.

I like Labours manifesto, but I don't like the anti semitism that appears to be in the party. The sorts of things Jeremy Corbyn protested for in the past do make me uncomfortable, but I do like the fact he felt compelled to protest. This suggests to me that he entered politics because he wanted to change things, not as a career move. I like that, and I think that Theresa May is the complete opposite. She became Prime Minister because it was a promotion.

However, I don't think Jeremy is a strong leader. He has repeatedly failed to attack the government on various issues that should have made it easy for an opposition leader to get the upper hand. He said he supported the Remain campaign during the referendum, but stayed largely silent, not really campaigning for one side or the other (in fact, various members of the remain campaign tried to contact him and had trouble). I do feel he should have campaigned, even if he campaigned for the Leave campaign.

Theresa, I don't like. She switched allegiances because she saw what was popular, and seemingly got voted in as Prime minister because no one else actually wanted the job. Neither are good things in any leader. We need a leader that is going to make the right decisions for the country. These may not be popular decisions. After all, we don't always like to do what is right. e.g. Everyone agrees that it is the right decision to go to the dentist to get your teeth checked, but no one could argue that is a popular past time. I get the impression TM will go for the popular one. TM has compared herself to Margaret Thatcher. Apart from the fact they are both arguably strong women, and their initials are the same but reversed, I don't see any major similarities. There is one major difference though. Mrs T always did what she believed was right, even if it was unpopular. She was also a good negotiator and got the rebate from the EU that almost halved our contribution to the EU and the Leave campaign continually neglected to mention. Also there may be a reason she didn't actually get the job on Merit.

I can't comment one way or the other on Tim Farron. As a Lib Dem supporter, I'd like him to do well, but I don't actually know enough about him or his policies to comment on him one way or the other.

So, my choice is vote Labour, knowing that they have a weak leader, and a problem with anti-Semitism. Vote Tory, even though I disagree with their policies, and have major concerns that TM will just go for what she believes is popular, or Vote Lib Dem (or any one of the other parties) knowing they are unlikely to get anywhere. If I decide to vote tactically, my best option in my area is actually Labour, assuming I want the Tories out.

The one choice I don't believe I have is to not vote.

Labour have populist policies that cannot be funded and a Leader whom MI5 think is a security risk. Unless you want a deteriorating economy and a deteriorating security situation with a Leader who wants to cosy up to losers such as leaders of terrorist organisations and of failing economies, you should not go there.

The Conservatives have an unfortunate reputation, which disguises the real benefits they can bring to Britain with the strong leadership TM should be able to command with a resounding majority.

The Lib Dems' Tim Farron is all mouth and no trousers and his extra 1p on income tax will hurt the 'just about managing' without actually resolving the problems with social care.

The rest (apart from the SNP in Scotland) would be a wasted vote.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Not exactly a great choice put in front of the electorate suffice to say but its important that one votes IMO as there are no excuses for those who do not vote as they cannot moan and groan afterwards about things if they did not take any part on democracy in the first place.

A poor choice and quite a difficult choice as firstly lets start with the Conservatives who give us the message of a strong and stable leadership in the national interest which of course is utter bollocks as apart from the great Sir Winston Churchill since then their strongest leader was Margaret Thatcher who was certainly was strong and not for U-turning unlike the current incumbent of 10 Downing Street who has made U-turns that you get in a boxed set of Top Gear DVDS

Although she will get in with a considerable majority come early tomorrow morning their manifesto was a utter disaster with ill thought out policies which quite obviously did not go down well even with her own natural supporters and that will not be forgotten about lightly one suspects in the coming years as l think it has damaged her and her party considerably in the longer term as people have long memorys.

We all know Brexit is happening but l have little faith in the likely outcome and l certainly don't expect one of the key planks of Brexit in lower immigration to be met at all and l think many are going to be very disappointed at the outcome several years down the road as its not going to be the bed of roses that some imagined and hoped for.

Well lets get on to Jeremy Corbyn who l to don't have much faith in either as he is very much too leftist for my liking and like the Conservatives certainly does not have the national interests at heart although l do like some of Labours manifesto policies l do worry about where the money will come to pay for it all this.

Thirdly lets get on to Tim Farron who's gay sex & abortion blunders’ in earlier in the election campaign have not gone down well and ever since then he has been fighting a losing battle and one cannot be surprised at that as they were significant own goals IMO.

So there you are 3 leaders all distinctly very poor but at the end of the day one has to put a cross on their ballet paper so l have chosen Labour with a heavy heart not because of their leader but because l agree with far more of their policies then the other parties at the end of the day.

I'm sorry to hear that, Den. A wrong decision in my view, but we are all entitled to our own opinions and to cast our votes as we think.

I don't think that the Conservative manifesto was a disaster at all, but I must say that the controversy over that social care issue was not well handled.

The policy remains the same as it appears in the manifesto, but what has been clarified is that there will also be a limit on how much anyone has to pay. Disaster? A grand misuse of that word, I think. It was a hidden benefit to people, not a hidden cost