Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
The EU comission is still an unelected, anti democratic bureaucracy so of course I'm not changing my point of view. Why would I?  |
Really? They are appointed by elected representatives. You don't like your commissioner you vote out the people who put them in place.
I don't remember voting for the PM or the Chancellor. I certainly don't remember voting Boris Johnson in as Foreign Secretary. They were elected as MPs only and then appointed to their positions of power or elected by a selectorate that did not include most of us.
If the EU Commission is unelected and anti-democratic so are the holders of cabinet positions, especially those from the House of Lords.
---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
iirc, cutting tax usually results in a greater tax take for the govt because people and companies are happier to pay what they perceive to be a fair tax rate rather than using tax avoidance vehicles to dodge paying it.
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Laffer Curve.
Obviously once the rates miss the peak of the curve revenue drops.
---------- Post added at 23:11 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
I absolutely do have a problem with confidence in this matter. It was a bloody miracle that we managed to get a majority out vote and the remoaners are using every trick in the book to turn this ship around. There were massive forces working against brexit and there still are. Of course I'm worried.  |
Ya. There were clearly no 'massive forces' working for Brexit and the Leave.EU campaign wasn't at all founded on anti-immigration rhetoric, much of it lies. Vote Leave, while better, was also immensely economical with the truth.
The remain campaign was a sloppy Project Fear with extensive hyperbole and some claims that were simply wrong, although as posted above Arron Banks' main criticism was that it was too factual. The leave campaign was largely blowing sunshine about a glorious future up the hindmost alongside Project BS and, now it's happened, the BS is unravelling. The BS peddlers who sold the public a vision of a pain-free Brexit then a dash to the stars, such as the Minister for Brexit, have been shown as either delusional or liars.
I've read a few people noting Brexiteers pleading persecution. Looks like they were right.
---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------
Just as an afterthought given your concern about democracy: I'm sure you're hoping for the court case on Article 50 to decide that Parliament is sovereign in this regard, given you voted in the referendum to restore the sovereignty of Parliament, and our elected representatives will have a say. That would ensure the most voices throughout the nation are heard, especially given that the nature of our departure from the EU was in no way settled by the referendum itself.
It would be pretty grim, don't you think, if Brexit were served by a man and/or woman neither of whom were elected by the public to their positions, but were only elected to the Commons as MPs?
Trying to use Crown Prerogative based on centuries old common law dating back to when we were a full monarchy to bypass Parliament doesn't strike me as particularly democratic.
---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
There are so many odd-ball Councillors around. Everyone focuses on MPs and their expenses but local councils are full of stories that no one knows about. Fact finding trips to exotic places, internal politics akin to that you would find in school playgrounds, criminal offenses or Councillors trying to use the powers inexplicably given to them to prosecute/intimidate/bully anyone who questions them or anyone they've simply taken a dislike too.
One read of Private Eye makes you seriously question localism and devolving power to local areas.
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The depressing part is that the PM didn't condemn the sentiment, just the wording. Usually such behaviour would raise widespread alarm bells but authoritarianism is fine as long as the aim coincides with what you want. Never mind that, inevitably, at some point it'll be used to push through something you don't. The government is supposed to try and bring people together and get them on board, instead government MPs are actively trying to shut down debate, ignoring reality and shunning 48%+ of the population while the PM looks the other way.
Strange times indeed.