Rugby Union Thread
 

England outclassed

Ireland 43 - 13 England

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...es/default.stm

Good game :tu:

Re: Rugby Union
 

I've always said if Wales aren't going to win the 6 nations then I'd want Ireland to take it :tu:

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England will struggle to win anything if they don't resolve their biggest problem which is their ill-discipline. Giving away needless penalties will get you nothing but trouble in a match, giving away a penalty straight after you score is just stupid. Nothing has been done for the last year or so to actually bring some players back into line as far as their discipline is concerned and it has shown on a number of occasions.
Ireland will take some beating as they have shown they have the skill and more importantly the control needed to lock a match down.

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Italy win, Ireland win. Wales win?

DW

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I think the only thing Wales will win this year is the wooden spoon.

Agree about England - it's about time Grewcock was dispensed with as his ill discipline cost England very dear again. Having said that Ireland were by far the best team on the day and it's only right that they won. No fair minded person minds being beaten by a better team and the reaction of their crowd to the National Anthem was exceptional.

Well done Ireland from a very proud Englishman!

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Andy Farrell should go as well....

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Farrell is a novice and I think needs a bit more time in the A team. The main problem for England was the lineout and lack of good, quick, possession. Discipline was key and the Irish scored two tries whilst England were down to 14 men. It really is time that it's made crystal clear to those who blatantly and studpidly infringe that they will be dropped!

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I think he needs time to settle, he was the best rugby league player i have ever seen play and i'm sure he will be able to transfer his skills to union. I think it's a bit unfair on him as he has been thrown into the deep end playing six nations rugby for England in his first few games playing union.

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I fear you're right. 29-14 at the moment with an hour gone...

DW

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Brilliant game, think I have just about calmed down.

Jonny Who? ;)

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Well only the 4th highest international points scorer of all time if I recall correctly - and that despite being only 27 and having been out of international rugby for over 3 years. Not bad I'd say :)

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

Agree there were far more experienced players out there who didn't perform and had no excuses.

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Whataloadofcrap.

All that's left for us is a victory against the Saesneg.

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Wales - The new Italy :p:

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Well to be fair if Gavin Henson spent a little less time waxing his legs and styling his hair they'd have a better chance. :)

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It wasn't that long ago we were whipping you lot silly - and those days will return soon :)

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Lived through that era Russ ( :( ) but don't hold your breath :)

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I'm sure you did - it was 2004 :rofl:

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Ahhh but that was a mere blip boyo :) I'm (sadly) talking about the days of Gareth Edwards, JPR Williams, JJ Williams, Phil Bennett et al. It'll be a long time before Wales reach that level again.

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A mere blip? Beating all 5 other nations? Riiight.....

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and Barry John & anyone called Quinnell :tu:

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Well as an Englishman I don't count Wales beating anyone else as relevant :)

Btw what have wales done since ? lol

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You're English? I'd never have guessed...

Well to be fair, you Saesneg have hardly set the world alight since 2003.

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I actually googled the Welsh success at rugby against England Russ.....

see attached for the result............. :jk: :google:

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:D

Well I can help you with that one - 2004, when Saesneg went from heros to zeros :D

Still, in the words of Kelly Jones...

:D

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The Seventies. I know because I was there. We thought it wouldn't end...
Gareth & JPR will we see their like again? <Getting misty eyed at the memories>

DW :)

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LOL..

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Just back in. Was at the Bot in Belfast to watch the game, atmosphere was great almost as good as being at Croker. Great game. If only we had kept our concentration at the end of the French game.

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If I could make my little winkie face bold for you I would?

He is a good kicker, hense his offer to go and play American Football to help out with their kicking.

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That's true and you haven't heard me gloating about our past glories have you. I may be born English (albeit with a fair bit of Irish blood in me) but I'm not arrogant and don't believe in the sort of bigoted stereotypes you seem to.

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Now now boys play nicely or someone will take the ball away ;)

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Yes - it reminded me of the World Cup game v. Australia a few years ago which Ireland really should have won but didn't.

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

He he he - yeah well the way our national football, cricket and rugby teams are playing at the moment that'd probably help :D

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No but I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time - see the World Cup/Euro tournament threads ;)

Not sure I've stated I believe any bigoted stereotypes, in fact I usually get all the usual sheep jokes thrown at me. Actually I'm half English but my loyalties stay this side of the brigde :)

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Well what's going on then??

England beating France (the Grand Slam favourites) well after being so poor against Ireland and making so many changes.
Ireland making hard work of Scotland to win the Triple Crown and no doubt still ruing their moment of madness against the French.
Wales - well who's going to explain that then? Now staring the wooden spoon in the face.
Italy - well they've won 2 games and the Six Nations needs them to come to the party.

Plenty of surprises then :)

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Ah well, over to Kelly Jones from the Stereophonics....

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You must like that song as it's the second time you've posted it :)

Maybe the Welsh team would do a lot better if they forgot about ancient hatreds and got on with playing the game. Surely there are more important things in life - even in Wales?

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Yeah, this time I mean it :D

Ah right, you're the one who thinks I believe in, what was it, 'bigoted stereotypes'? And now it's "ancient hatreds"? Sorry to burst your bubble but let me quote one line from the above song which I think you might have missed.....

By the way, I'm half English.....but my heart is Welsh ;)

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Well Russ I've never been a great Stereophonics fan so can't comment on their lyrics :) Anyway if you care to read my post a little more thoroughly you'll notice that I didn't state that you believe in ancient hatreds - I implied that some of the Welsh team do and my comment is based on numerous articles and quotes by Welsh players I've read over the years.

;)

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Can you link to any?

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Nope - it's a bit difficult linking to items on past sports programmes and articles in newspapers but there have been numerous examples over the years and if you have time and want to find some just try Google. The Scots even tried dredging up Bannockburn to galvanise their team at Murrayfield not so long ago. Time moves on surely? If we can forgive (if not forget) the awful events of the 2 world wars, surely the Celts can get to grips with their past.

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No, if you're going to make claims like that then the responsibility is on you to back it up. At the moment all we've got is an unsubstanciated claim which happens to fit in with your way of thinking.

Got a link for that?

True however just as any English sports fan (who of course, never have a dig at us celts) will tell you, friendly rivally between the home nations is the birthright of every Briton :)

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Don't need a link for the 'Bannockburn' story - Along with several million others I saw the match and witnessed the sad histrionics at Murrayfield and likewise I've heard/read former and existing Welsh players express anti-English sentiments many, many, times. My point remains that there are surely more effective and more positive means by which to motivate a team.

By the way I don't have links for lots of other things either but didn't realise that was a prerequisite for having a debate on CF or have the T&C's changed? If so can you provide me with a link for the relevant rules?

Cheers :)

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But as you know, that was just a minority of 4 people.

No you haven't. Come on now :)

Whatever gets 'em going I spose.

This should give you an idea of the basics, although it's entirely up to you if you want to post links or not, but bear in mind it's likely no-one will take you seriously if you make wild claims without backing them up. I could say all English people are inherantly racist however I have no basis for that belief so it would be daft to post it. However if I did have evidence, that would be different. By the way before anyone moans, no I don't think that about the Saesneg.

You're welcome.

Ah by the way - rugby. "We don't want to be, your enemy...." :D

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Russ some of your statements make sense but you seem to attribute quite a few falsehoods to me. I did not say, have never said and do not think that all Welsh, Scots, Irish (or any other nationality for that matter) are anything in particular - like everyone else there are all sorts in every race, creed etc. The Scottish people were not to blame for the Bannockburn histrionics - the SRFU were! What I wrote was that over the years I'd heard and read many vitriolic statements aimed at the English by current and former Welsh players, that these were based mainly of historical events and that it was about time things like that were forgotten and more positive motivational tools employed. That's not quite the same thing as claiming all Welsh people are racist which is an analogy you seem to feel is appropriate. In fact, rather than being a prejudiced and bitter outlook, I think that's a much more healthy way for us all to look to the future.

Incidentally, 5 minutes on Google earlier yielded this quote:

In 1977 Phil Bennett's pre-game pep talk before facing England produced a memorable quote: "Look what these *******s have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our houses and they only live in them for a fortnight every 12 months. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English - and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

I don't intend to waste more of my time searching for other examples to illustrate my point but I dare say, sadly, that yet more nationalistic vitriol will emerge in the lead up to the forthcoming Wales v. England match.

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1977? I was only 3 then :D

Yes, I'm sure there'll be plenty of nasty comments in the run up and during the match.

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St Paddies day

3 Rugby Matches + Booze = plan for a damn good day!

:beer: :cleader: :drunk:

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Agree - it should be great - too close to call between Ireland and France for the Six Nations Championship but I'll be hoping the boyos in Green come up trumps as I feel they've been the best team throughout. As for Wales v. England, well this close to the World Cup, a good performance from Ashton's experimental team is vital but it's a lot to ask.

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Hmmmm.... well....... late tries seem to be the curse of Ireland. They let France well and truly off the hook a few weeks ago, gave away an unnecessary late try today in Rome and now France have scored in the last minute of the game against Scotland to wine the 6 nations. They surely must be wondering what they have to do to win the Grand Slam.

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Anyone else enjoying this? :)

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Hell Yes!! Bloomin Marvellous young chap! Tallyho

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Rather!!!

Ah one-two-three-four.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHklhgRJKQ4

:D

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Very good!
Paul's gone suspiciously quiet since the rugby this afternoon - and even West Ham won too! :cleader:

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So France who shouldn't have won won and Ireland who should have won didn't! Italy win 2 matches. Scotland pick up the wooden spoon. Wales manage a win at last and England continue stuttering with a team of newbies. Not sure many people would've predicted the outcome of this years 6 Nations but that's what makes it a great tournament. Aside from New Zealand choking again I can't honestly see anyone from the northern hemisphere threatening them in the World Cup this summer.

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Right let's get a reality check for all the Welsh people who think we are going to win the world cup after today's result WRONG!!!!!! Osem's assessment is about right

We played an average England side and if Harry Ellis had stayed on we would have been looking at a whitewash. Stephen Jones must now be looking at playing for Llanelli and can forget a trip to Oz in May and will now be going to the World Cup as understudy to Hook. Problem is in Wales we have a bad season and it's always down to the England game

There is immense promise in this side but the WRU allowed the best coach in Wales to go (he's now coaching Mumbles seconds) for reasons we will never know. Get him back and we will then have a half decent side but nothing that can compete with anything NZ can produce. I watch Super 14s every week and the difference is huge Canterbury are basically a shadow NZ side. the rugby is nothing like we see English Premier or Magners or Heineken cup

Best thing about today was the forwards (Ryan Jones especially) fronted up for the first time

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I'll be sneaking round to my Brother-in-laws house, and dropping off something Welsh onto his doorstep. :)

Wonder if I can get cawl in a tin?

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Agreed, although given Mr Jones Scarlets roots a place in Oz is likely.

The All Blacks will romp home with this. They travel well, they play at a pace 2-3 times faster than the Northern half. France and possibly Ireland may put up a good show, but neither can honestly think they can beat them.

Wales will be lucky to get through the group stages.

Have you also noticed how grey Gareth Jenkins hair is getting, I think the stress is starting to show.

---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------

Two seasons ago we won the Grandslam, and came within a point of New Zealand, or was that the year before?

Where the heck did it go all wrong this season?

Surely not Gareth Jenkins?

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New Zealand's biggest problem will be their own attitude and expectation. They have all the talent in the world but in terms of World Cup competitions they have badly underperformed. Who knows what'll happen this time around.

There is no doubt that the Welsh do have some great natural talent in their team but I actually think that the fact they put so much emphasis on beating England disguises much of what is wrong in their game and distracts them from far better things. Nice as it obviously is, beating an inexperienced England side really should be scant consolation for a team which comes joint bottom of the championship but it'll be viewed by many as the most important thing to come out of this championship.

England have at long last made much needed changes, albeit at least 2 years too late. Ashton must now have total faith in this side if they are to have any chance of getting to the final rounds of the World Cup. Boring it won't be though :)

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What a good match between Leicester and the Ospreys - highly entertaining even if there were too many mistakes.

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England 62-5 Wales

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6928485.stm

Sorry Russ, I just couldn't resist it :disturbd:

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If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.

Utter utter utter shambles :afire:

Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.

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Wales did only have a "second string" side out though Russ, not sure that it makes it any easier to bear though.

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A team like England :confused: what you mean the World Champions

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Yes, the team who won the World Cup but haven't played like it since.

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Big deal we are still the Champs

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I'm not denying Jonny Wilkinson won the World Cup but England haven't played a tenth like champions since. They've been distinctly average ever since and went from heros to zeros pretty quickly. This is what I mean by 'a team like England'.

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Rebuilding old chap rebuilding ;)

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In that case today's result was awful against a 'rebuilding' team like England ;)

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Enjoyable though it was, last week's result against Wales is irrelevant and means nothing in terms of the World Cup.

My memories of the last World Cup are that England didn't play particularly well but managed to grind out the results that mattered. That's fine by me as, although I much prefer more flowing rugby, it takes 2 teams to make that happen and there are no prizes for playing attractive rugby and losing.

England's very variable form in the last few years has probably done them a favour as very few people seem to give them a chance. The pressure England are under I believe pales into insignificance when compared to that on New Zealand who've played some astonishing rugby, have been virtually unbeatable over much of the same period and who until very recently would have been viewed as runaway favourites. Personally I think the perennial chokers may once again have peaked too early and that either South Africa or Australia will win.

I'll be very surprised if England get even to the semi-finals but then I was surprised about that last time and look what happened........

As for "heroes to zeros", there's some truth in that but at least they've been heroes :D

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I'll be interested to see how England handle France this weekend. Especially as I'll actually be there.

As for the world cup, England will certainly make it out of the group stages but probably in second place rather than group winners almost certainly lining up a quarter final against Wales.

I don't believe that they are there yet i.e. up to the standard they were 4 years ago. Too many people left/retired and as had been said, that takes time to rebuild from. on the other hand it only takes a couple of mistakes at the wrong point and the game can go the other way.

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Agree - a lot happened immediately after the last World Cup with retirements of key players and of course a succession of injuries to JW. Given all the problems of JW's successors, the latter especially not only probably cost us points in every match we played but I think took away some of the confidence and self belief that Clive Woodward inspired and which was so instrumental in England winning the cup. Having said all that, I still can't quite explain England's fairly dismal form in recdent times.

France at the weekend? Anyone's guess really. As always, a lot depends on which French team turns up. In any event it won't have much direct bearing on the coming tournament.

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Hmmmmmm just been watching the Scotland v. Ireland game and from what I've seen I don't think Ireland can be accused of peaking early. :confused:

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A good morale boosting win for Wales today.

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And England go in the opposite direction :(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...sh/6946124.stm

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I don't know if it's me but England seem to be playing by number at the moment. Wales ok it was a win but we still have the same problems lineouts and the forwards not being able to control the game. A draw would have been a fairer result Argentina would be a good outside bet IMO another couple of weeks together could bring it all together for them

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Given their lack of good international competition Argentina are a very good side. From what I saw they took the game right back to Wales and were unlucky not to score what might have been the equaliser right at the end. Where were the Welsh fans though? The stadium appeared less than half full!

Not sure what any of the home nations have learned from these recent matches though. So far as England's results against France are concerned - they should have won at HQ and deserved to lose in Marseille. Having said that IIRC France have only ever been beaten there once and that was by New Zealand.

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Only beaten there once, by Argentina ;)

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Correct - but I could have sworn I heard Bill Mclaren say it was New Zealand :confused:

Anyway it's only been done once and with England's away form have been pretty poor for the last few years there were few surprises in the result for me.

What does get up my nose is the poor discipline which doesn't help matters -penalites being given away for no good reason and costly yellow cards. I really do think the players need to grow up, control their emotions and stick to the job in hand.

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Nice easy warm up game for the french, like shelling pea's really. :D

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Yup

A good win for the French, and as usual Gareth Jenkins thinks that his way of doing things in Llanelli will win things for Wales.

When will he wake up and smell the stale ale.

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Ho ho ho, like you actually saw the game :D

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Watched it on the beeb Russ, it was like men against boyo's. :D

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Picture quality must have been dodgy for you then, because although we were well beaten, we didn't make it easy.

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So 34-7 at home, from a team who barely got out of fourth gear, isn't easy ? I think the dodgy picture you speak of, lies a little closer to home. :D

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I did say we were well beaten. But we didn't make it easy for them. The French are favourites for the World Cup and they played like it.

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I wonder about you sometimes Russ. :spin:

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The French might be favourites from the Northern Hemisphere contingent but I'd back NZ, SA and even Australia against them in the competition.

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And I don't think any of the home nations would beat any of those.

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History has shown that, on their day, England, Wales and Ireland can beat pretty much any team. The problem in the World Cup is stringing together a series of those days by maintaining fitness/performance/ confidence levels and avoiding injuries to key players. I can't see any of the home teams doing that and the same goes for France who are not favourites even though they'll be at home.

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The Ireland team is well dodgy currently, the match against Italy on Friday was well scary and does not inspire confidence for the world cup. Though it was brilliant to see the first Ireland match played at Ravenhill in 53 years.

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Well there's a lot to be said for a good run of form just before the tournament but the flip side is perhaps unrealistic expectation and pressure on the team. I think I'd rather be in England's situation than NZ's to be honest.

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France having a bit of a nightmare v. Argentina right now - 17-6 after 35 mins.

Think there may be riots in Paris if this carries on :)

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Wheres my F1??

Blooming rugby 7 hours tomorrow

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Well it's only once every 4 years isn't it :)

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

And the French LOSE 17-12 !!!!!!!

:D :D


Well done Argentina !

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I'm suprised how poor the French were after very good performances recently, but it goes to show anything can happen in big competitions.

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Great result for Argentina and how well they played French too cocky maybe??

Strange team the French you don't know which one will turn up.

We'll see what Wales can do on Sunday, don't think that one is cut and dried either

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"Strange team the French you don't know which one will turn up."

A bit like my wife ......... :D

However, the Argentine defence was awesome - once upon a time they'd have crumbled in the last 20 mins but not now!

I'd like to see them in a 7 nations championship but they'd have to be based in Europe, Spain ?

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Hmmm - England 28 - US 10 - well at least nobody can accuse us of peaking too early lol

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Not a good day for North America :D

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Wilko out, Barkley out, Vickery out :(

Farrell to play at Fly Half :confused: :confused:

I reckon England must be hoping to confuse South Africa to defeat

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I think he will do well there, he used to first receiver when playing for Wigan which isn't much different to fly half. But i can't see England doing well in the match as a whole to be honest.

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Bet he got a lot more time to clear the ball with Wigan than he'll get from South Africa - he'll be their top target and it'll be a stern test.

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Yes the injuries haven't helped but England were bereft of ideas and attacking flair. Just as I thought, Farrell a fish out of water - soooooooooo slow on the ball! Perry devoid of any urgency or innovation. Half time, England not in the match and never looked like scoring - time for bold changes in a last ditch attempt to salvage something?? No chance - leave them for when it's far too late. I've never understood the attitude which afflicts England rugby/football/cricket coaches/managers whereby despite their teams being totally outplayed and them having nothing whatsoever to lose by trying something novel, they leave it 'til 15 minutes before the end of play to ring the changes.
:confused:

Things can only get better however and at least a cricket score was avoided (just) by hook or by crook.........