Operation Yewtree
 

The Sun are reporting that SIR Jimmy Savile is to be branded a manipulative paedophile by FIVE women who claimed he abused them as kids.

The legendary DJ and TV host - who died last October aged 84 - will be accused on an ITV documentary of molesting girls as young as 14.

Some of the women were pupils of Duncroft Approved School for Girls in Staines, Surrey, which Savile frequently visited in the 1970s.

Two of them claim he asked for sexual favours in return for treats and trips in his car.

Sources close to the programme - to be shown next Wednesday - said it features "shocking material that really lifts the lid on the icon".

Exposure - The Other Side Of Jimmy Savile is fronted by former Surrey police officer and child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas. It took a year to make.

But Sir Jimmy's shocked niece Amanda McKenna, of Leeds, said: "The documentary makers should be ashamed for cashing in on a man who is dead and can't defend himself."

The BBC planned to broadcast similar claims on Newsnight shortly after his death.

But bosses shelved it and ran two tribute programmes celebrating his career instead.

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Link?

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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...lls-Royce.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cumentary.html

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Acuse him of something when he's not around to defend himself. Yeah, that'll teach him

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Typical action of a paper owned by the Murdochs. The **** is nearly as bad as the Fail

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Its in the mail to

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ikki%2BMurfitt

And the mirror

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...v-star-1351439

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------

There was a BBC investigation for newsnight iirc that was quietly shelved, wonder if that uncovered anything or its reason for being shelved was because it uncovered nothing.

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Well i hope they have proof, there is nothing worse in my eye's than attacking someones character after they have passed away and cannot defend themselves

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Interesting.

Was he or wasn't he. that is the question.

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it looks pretty damning specially as BBC staff at the time are going on camera saying it was suspected.

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From what I've read. he was investigated for it.

it's intersting because if it is true then there must have been another celebrity who was aware of it going on.

and of course persons at the BBC.

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And accusing somebody whilst they are still alive, and are unable to disprove allegations is any better? Should we summarily dismiss all "he said, she said" types of allegations on that basis?

The papers are merely reporting what will be in a TV programme, so criticising them for it, is complete prejudiced and blinkered nonsense(no surprise there:rolleyes:).

Some of the the initial allegations were made at the time and ignored or covered up.
He was approached before Jimmy Savile died. The fact that the full investigation didn't start until after his death, seems to be more of a coincidence than anything else.

It is not just these women making accusations.

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puts a new spin on Jim will fix it

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Should have been sorted when he was alive & able to defend himself. He`s dead, let it go.

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If there is evidence which confirms he was a paedophile it shouldn't matter if he is dead or alive. Paedophilia is indefensible.

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How many rape or child abuses cases are there, where there is irrefutable evidence? Most cases can only proceed on a "he said, she said" basis.

In this instance there are dates, times, and places that might be able to be verified, and I'm sure that will have been done prior to this broadcast.

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Just because a number of people have come forward to make these claims does not mean they are true.

I agree with those who say he always seemed a bit......odd but that does not mean he was guilty of anything.

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A quote from the BBC story on this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19776872

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I always thought he was guilty, of abusing fashion

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Indeed i think you would be correct on that point :)

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Perhaps it would be good to change the thread title to something that reflects the fact that it's just allegations at this point?

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Now then Now then

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Agree, Innocent until proven guilty.

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Indeed :tu:

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I started the thread and would be happy for the mods to change the title to:

"Jimmy Savile branded a paedophile"

I think that would be more reflective of the news reports today.

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I've changed it to something a bit more appropriate.

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Personally i think The Title should have allegation in there as that's what they are at the moment.

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It seems as though these allegations were investigated by the police whilst he was still alive and they decided to take no further action

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...legations.html

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The problem the surviving family have now is they have to disprove the allegations beyond doubt or Sir Jimmy's memory will always carry this doubt and proving his innocence will a hell of a lot harder than shouting some allegations and sowing the seeds of doubt

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Apparently, it was an "open secret".

Indeed.

I agree, people should be exposed if they are guilty of sexually abusing children, dead or alive.

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How can a dead person be found guilty Richard? Explain that one please?

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There are reasons for this contained within the reports.

The BBC say that no formal complaints were received, so no investigation took place. They are now using this to say that, according to their records, nothing untoward took place.

There are reasons, however, as to why victims of child sex abuse don't complain at the time, if ever, mainly fear.

BBC staff say that they were afraid to speak out because he is said to have had a lot of influence and they feared losing their jobs.

Again, this is all contained in the reports.

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

I see what you're saying, a dead person can't be found guilty in a court of law.

By guilty, I meant the actual meaning of the word as defined in the dictionary.

The best we can do is look at all the available evidence and make a decision based on that.

Personally, i'm keeping an open mind, at least until i've seen the documentary.

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Is it not possible if the person is not breathing?

Is it possible to find a dead person not guilty?

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Let's have a look then....(from dictionary.com)

So trial by armchair expert then?

Just because a number of people make claims about someone is not good enough reason to consider someone 'guilty' by any definition. Innocent peoples' lives have been ruined for such things.

:scratch:

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You're just being pedantic and playing semantics now.

Also, I don't see why you're confused that i'm keeping an open mind. I've not suggested that I believe that he carried out these acts or not. The truth is, I don't know.

I do know that his private persona was VERY different to his public persona. Very arrogant and bad tempered....

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so you'll be basing your opinion on a documentary specifically made and biased to show his guilt,how very open minded :rolleyes:

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Really? Have you read what you've posted? You've said that people should have their guilt exposed whether they are alive or dead. How the hell can anyone be guilty if their side of the story has not been considered, or even heard?

I think martyh sums it up perfectly above.


As is the case with many people.

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Interesting thread this.
we seem to be defending a dead man who is accused of being a paedophile whilst he was alive. because he's dead. and because the 'victims' are not children anymore?

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Personally,I don't know whether I think he was a paedophile or not. I think his personal life was a little weird but that does not mean he was a paedophile, any more than it did (say) for Kenneth Williams or Frankie Howerd.

I hope that, if he is, this documentary helps his victims get closure. If he isn't, ITV have just launched an attack on someone who has probably raised more cash for charities than almost anyone else in the country.

Either way, I hope the charities he was involved with are not too badly damaged by this.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

Indeed, I have it on good authority that Bruce Forsyth can actually be quite moody, and I know at least one ex-camera supervisor who absolutely refused to work with Ruby Wax because she only ever treated him like dirt.

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Justin Lee Collins isn't stinking of roses right now either

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I'm sure there was something about Saville abusing a minor years and years ago - something was said during the filming of Have I Got News For You and things started to leak out about him, but it seemed to get brushed under the carpet. maybe I'm making it up, but I'm sure the interwebz will hold something somewhere if I'm right....

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I'm not sure why a documentary would be biased just because it aims to make a point. It would be biased if it deliberately misrepresents the facts or is highly selective in the facts it reports on. We'll have to wait and see how credible the evidence (and sources) are before passing judgement.

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I don't see the point in making it if it isn't going to biased against him ,unless they are trying to prove his innocence which in this instance is not the case ,they have made the program to illustrate his guilt as they see it ,so i would say it will be very one sided ,but as you say, we will see .
Whatever happens the damage is done now and the family are going to have a very tough time proving otherwise

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A very interesting quote from Esther Rantzen on the BBC website. Lets not forget than Rantzen is the founder of the child protection charity ChildLine, so this subject will be very close to her heart.

"Esther Rantzen who worked as a television presenter at the BBC at the same time Savile was at the height of his fame in the 1970s, said there were rumours about the star.

After watching the alleged victims' evidence as part of the documentary, Rantzen said she believed the testimonies and now thinks the rumours were true.

"Before I watched these I had absolutely decided I would not make up my mind because he's not here to defend himself - it seems utterly unfair," she said.

"I must say that what these women say is so matter-of-fact, they corroborate each other. The style of the abuse and the attack on them was consistent one with each other. I'm afraid the jury isn't out any more and what upsets me so much is that not one of these children could ask for help.

"The abuse of power was as great as the sexual abuse."

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Maybe someone a bit more neutral may be better to comment ?

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I honestly don't think his charities will suffer.

I can't abide that idiot.

Many people are found guilty in a court of law in their absence.

Are you suggesting that deceased people should not have any allegations of child abuse allegations investigated?

You're focussing too much on the terminology that i've used- I thought that, following a recent development, being pedantic was now a thing of the past on here :D

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Not having studied law but I can tell you when a person comes forward with allegations of sexual abuse and it is found the alleged person is dead no further action is taken. My knowledge comes from voluntary work with Barnardo's and running a website about the old homes of Dr Barnardo's so I do get a few emails alleging abuse of one thing or another.

Two points: I remember seeing the satirical panel game show Have I got News For You where Paul Merton made some scathing remarks about Jimmy Saville and young girls. Angus Deayton as the presenter at the time who also had a few words to say. there is a link if you want to find the script.

My last one was when I had taken some scouts and cubs to Boyed Field Scout Camp, Henlow in the early 80s. I was instructed that the boys were not allowed to be alone with Jimmy Saville if he was seen running around the grounds.

The scouting association don't normally act on word of mouth but good evidence.

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Thanks for posting.

I can imagine that the police wouldn't want to do an investigation as he's deceased. Aside from the difficulties that his death poses, they would want to utilise their resources on catching living abusers who are able to face punishment if found guilty.

From what you say, it seems that there were suggestions that he was into underage boys as well. I have read that a lot of paedophiles aren't particularly interested in the sex of the child, it's the fact that it's a child that arouses them.

This link is from a girl who claims that he abused her and others as children. She does not believe that the BBC were aware that it was going on.

The part mentioning this is about halfway down.

It was first posted on 30 July 2010:

http://www.fanstory.com/displaystory.jsp?id=363399

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All this is very sad Jimmy Saville is now dead if only the allegations had of been made whilst he was still here.

Now its doubtful wether they can be proved or not as he cannot be questioned in court.

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If it gets to court then there'll be at least some good and verifiable evidence available, certainly more than "he/she said".

No. Are you suggesting we ought to do away with courts altogether and leave justice up to the people?

When the terminology used relates to what some people "assume" is a person's "guilt" then you cannot be too careful especially when they didn't actually state that the time they "didn't quite mean it that way".

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ing-wrong.html

Jimmy Savile claimed paedophile Gary Glitter 'did nothing wrong'

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That's right. Surely nobody was harmed whilst he was raping young girls. Such a misunderstood chap.

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In fairness, it looks like the comments weren't in reference to the rape cases, but to the material found on Gary Glitter's pc.

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... The viewing and downloading of which, boosted the site traffic stats of wherever he got it, possibly earning the distributor advertising or subscription revenue, and most definitely confirming the demand for such material, thereby directly inducing others to go and make more of it.

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What concerns me, is that I was NOT shocked by this. Are people calling all these women lairs ? I do not see what they would expect to gain be coming forward now.

I wonder all the time why any one would want to "play" with kids as a volunteer when not having a child of there own involved. When mine were of that age,I supported what ever they wished to join,but "left" with them

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I'm not going to get into an argument about what is and is not acceptable. All I am saying is that when Savile said Glitter did 'nothing wrong' he was commenting on Glitter's dowloading of child porn, and not (as suggested by Russ) on the rape cases which took place years later.

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Neither was I. He did certainly have a very sinister vibe to him IMO but then again so did this guy.

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quite right
Every pornographic photo of a child means that somewhere that child is in danger so anybody 'just viewing' it is doing great harm because those children aren't just there to have photos taken

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That's a pretty cynical view, and not one which stands up to any sort of scrutiny. There are people involved in charity and voluntary works of all kinds who have no personal connection to the cause, whether it's meals on wheels, a cancer charity or one of the many uniformed and non-uniformed youth organisations.

In fact, in my experience, lack of willingness of the parents to get involved is one of the main reasons why such organisations can't do everything they would like to or, worse, are forced to shut down.

Do you "wonder all the time" at the motives of the person with no living elderly relatives, who delivers meals on wheels?

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Did anyone else see this as well?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...savile-1353195

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19788721

bear in mind that "insufficient evidence to take any further action" does not mean he didn't do it, just that there was not enough evidence at the time of questioning to actually charge. now I'm not saying he did or didn't do it, but rumours of Savile and children have been circulating for many years, even before the 2007 questioning.

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This is an example of where media hype has (I believe) damaged society. It's now thought of as weird that people who have no kids (for whatever reason, whether through choice, biology or circumstance) would want to just help kids without being some sort of pervert.

My sister, for instance, used to volunteer for our local council, supervising kids (who had problems at home and were often victims of various kinds of abuse). She would spend a week or two away at a local camp, just supervising these kids, and was frequently able to get them to open up about the problems they had. She had no kids, and didn't want any at the time. It does not automatically follow that she had sexual feelings for them.

Now, I am not saying that there aren't paedophiles. There are. I am saying that the Media (and in particular the Press) have made us as a society think there are more paedophiles than there are.

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In a word YES. With out trawling I am sure there have been cases of vulnerable people suffering at the hands of their carers. Sorry but I do wonder why they would do it. That is not to say that there is anything wrong. Just what is the motivation, perhaps thinking along these lines if it "saves " one person is not such a bad thing.
The carers that look after my father ( along with family, I have to add) are paid well over the going rate. So to hopefully ensure that they want to keep the job. However we have cameras ( with his full knowledge & permission) all over the house. Some in clear site others hidden . Just in case. Also a agency was/is employed to run full checks on anyone new entering his home.

---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:39 ----------

I simply wonder why people would want to do it. At no time did I wish to tar all with the same brush. That does not stop the question from passing though my mind. I can not look out for every person in the world. However when my family are involved I will always go the extra mile to ensure his or her safety & if that means questioning( If only silently) peoples motives.So be it.

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That's a real pity, for a couple of reasons that immediately come to mind. First of all, I think you could afford to try a little harder to acknowledge the damage sensationalist media coverage has done over the past 15-20 years and to choose not to allow your thought processes to be directed by it.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I think you need to lift your eyes a little and recognise that not everybody operates according to the sort of naked self-interest you have described. Some people volunteer for things simply because they believe the interests of the community are served by it, though it may be of significant cost to them in terms of time and money.

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is it not possibly the case that their numbers are either the same, or have increased due to more varied ways that they can distribute and/or be found out? the internet has completely revolutionised the way in which we communicate and the amount of information we leave as a shadow of our exploits. people can now find out pretty much anything they want about you given the skills and tools without even getting out of their seat these days.

perhaps there seems more of them because they are easier to track and find. maybe there are more of them because the information is easier to come by than it was 15 years ago. either way, we have a duty to protect children, regardless of whether the perpetrator is alive or dead. as was mentioned before, 'just viewing' an image is not 'just viewing' - a child was abused to gain that image. someone abused that child. others know about that person and the ring expands with other people possibly abusing other children. child abuse is child abuse, be it taking a photo, making a video or doing it behind closed doors with no recording or the event at all.

no one on this forum can know without any reasonable doubt one way of the other if Savile did or didn't abuse any children unless they were in the room when the alleged events took place. the point is, there is no harm in pursuing allegations to find evidence either way. it's better to spend time looking into this to find no one was abused, rather than ignore it and be ignorant to those who suffered. to ignore it would only send a message to abusers that could harden their belief that they can get away with it. to believe we know how many paedophiles are out there is silly - if we knew that, we would have to have caught them all.

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i thort he died few years back?
why dig up all wat he did in his past? he gone now..

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I understand and fully agree with you on both your points. However blind trust in my mind is asking for trouble. Sorry but that is the way I feel.

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are you for real or just trolling????

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He is dead. If he did abuse them, those women (as they are now) are probably still suffering as a result of his actions. Don't they deserve some sort of closure?

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Fully agree. Well said.

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I would 100% agree with you but the law takes a different view. The children who were abused while in the care of Dr. Barnardo's are told as adults to get on with their lives and not look back, what is done is done.

A lot of these cases the then children ran away and were taken back to the abuser by the Police, so in the child's mind it was ok and the adults were allowed to abuse them. I'm lucky as I was never abused as a child in care so I can't know what these people feel or what these girls are going through.

I hope the programme will go some way for these ladies to close the door on the days they were abused by this sick man. If it comes out that people in the BBC were aware of what their golden star was doing heads should roll in a big way.

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

Oh dear I'm afraid I also did think he was quilty of being a pervert/killer. When in fact he had given his life to teaching and had retired.

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what sort of "closure" will it give them then? Raking up fetid muck in front of the world will really help them will it ?? OK, I'm not a qualified psychologist, but I can't help feeling that opening all this up could only damage them more, especially as there can never be a trial/conviction or whatever.

According to the lunchtime radio news, 2 of the women making these allegations have given their permission to be fully identified (I think they may even be appearing in the programme). I may be cynical, but I feel this is a case of someone doing ANYTHING just to get their 15 minutes of fame. If they were relatives/friends of mine, I would have strongly advised them NOT to bring this out into the public domain.
Maybe the documentary makers have paid them well, or suggested they'll get good money from the press ...

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Yes thats fair enough but this guy was also pulled in for questioning after his name had been dragged through the papers and on TV without any foundation a few years back.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003...ion.television

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In the absence of a finding of guilt in a court of law, a man is innocent and entitled to go about his affairs without anyone making insinuations or acting prejudicially towards him. As far as the law is concerned, he did not do it.

Mind you, the principal protection in such circumstances are the laws of defamation, but they don't apply once you're dead.

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I agree. A lot of things in society were previously underground, so people think they are now more prevalent.

I believe that there are no more, or less, paedophiles today than there were years ago.

Are there more paedophiles around than you think?- yes.

Are most people paedophiles?- no.

I was chatting to some friends recently, regarding what we would do if we found a little girl found wandering the streets alone in tears. Some people, mostly women, said that they would comfort her or take her in whilst things were sorted out. I and others said that they wouldn't go near the child, we would keep an eye on her to ensure she didn't go near a busy road etc and call the police. I think it's very sad that the tabloid hysteria obout paedophilia has resulted in this, but there's no way I would want to be accused of touching the girl inappropriately.

Do you remember when they were behind with CRB checks for teachers a few years ago?

Some teachers (who, on the balance of probabilities, weren't child abusers) could not teach until their check came through. Many older children couldn't go to school and were wandering the streets whilst their parents were at work- much more dangerous in my opinion.

Of course, clearing a CRB check doesn't mean that one isn't a child abuser, it could merely mean that one hasn't been caught/convicted of doing it thus far...

If you take a look at the link I provided earlier, one of them has bowel cancer, perhaps she feels she's got nothing to lose by going public now?

Paul Gambaccini is the latest person to add to the allegations:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-schoolchildre

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

Because of their illegal nature, child porn sites are usually subscription based to make money.

They are encrypted, so a google search won't produce anything. That would be too easy for the police to find.

http://ceop.police.uk/ will often look for key words to alert them to inappropriate internet usage. All these Jimmy Saville threads will most likely be flagged up! Child sex rings will, therefore, talk in code in their forums/chatrooms.

Another way is to, say, create a site dedicated to flowers. On a page showing us what looks like a picture of a hyacinth, the paedophiles will have software that changes it to show a picture of child sex abuse instead.

Operation Ore arrests were mainly from credit card useage on such an illegal site. But, whose to say that someone else wasn't using the credit card, or that it's details hadn't been cloned?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ore

Interestingly, as I understand it, it's not illegal to look at child porn, it's the downloading of it that's the offence as then a person is then "in possession of it". I guess this is to protect people who innocently stumble across it in all innocence.

Otherwise, if someone posted such an image on here, people seeing it before it was deleted would have committed a serious offence!

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Yes there is one key word that will take you to all the sites and you say when it is used it rings alarm bells.

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I find that a bit pathetic.
if you don't do anything. and have no intention of doing anything.

then who gives a flying fig what people think?

I have no problem with upsetting the paranoid society we have become.

I can imagine everyone standing on the other side of the road holding their hands up to the approval of each other.

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One thing for sure I'll be watching the show on Wednesday. There has been some really interesting points made in this thread. I'll maybe create a poll on Thursday to see what impact the documentary has had on peoples opinions towards the allegations and Jimmy.

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Blimey...What have you done with Gary L?

That's the second time I agree with your expressed sentiments.

Maybe if we worried less about what others think we might have a less paranoid society and we could get back to a real caring sharing society. The thought that adults would fail to comfort an obviously upset child because they are terrified of being accused of perversions makes my blood boil.

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I was at Edinburgh zoo with my wife a few weeks ago. We went first thing in the morning, the place was dead. As we got up to the Tigers we heard crying. There was a little boy about 4 years old who was wearing shorts and had got his leg stuck in the fence next to the enclosure. His mum was freaking out. God knows how long they had been there but I'm pretty sure we where the only 4 people in the zoo at that time. Obviously the mother needed help but couldn't get it as she didn't want to leave her little boy alone. She rubbed cream on his leg hoping it would slip out but it was stuck fast. I offered to help and climbed over the fence and started to push his leg from the other side. Again nothing. I asked her to throw the cream over and I
would put some on his knee from my side. The boys mum looked at me like I'd just spat in her boys face. She then proceeded to yank his leg until it became unstuck, clearly causing him pain, and ignored me thereafter. I was so offended. Clearly I wasn't looking to rub cream onto her boys leg for sexual gratification. I'd have to be a pretty mental customer to mess with a boy in front of his mum and my own wife!

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I think it's a waste of time.There can be no prosecution and I think that the women concerned should get help with treatment rather than appear on this programme.I think it's more likely to do them harm when they are unlikely to get any real redress from the person concerned.

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I can totally understand where your coming from- but, sadly, that's the society we've become. Remember the case where two PCSO's left a child to drown as it would have "breached health and safety regulations" for them to enter the water?

Good idea to create a poll.

On This Morning a senior lawyer was quoted as saying that he has examined all the evidence based upon legal protocol and that there would definitely be grounds for arrest.

During the discussion, a woman, who was there to balance out the views of the man who did the investigating that lead to the programme being made, said something odd. She said that her father used to work at TV Centre and as a child he used to take her in to meet all the Radio 1 starts of the day. She met DLT, Tony Blackburn and all the others, but, her father would never introduce her to Jimmy Saville. She then began to verbally wonder why on air and, to me, there looked to be a dawn of realisation in her facial expression.

She then said that she was going to talk to her father about it now she's an adult as she was never, ever given an explanation as to why JS was the only one she was not allowed to meet.

If anybody wants to watch it, it's here (the discussion is the first item, where they normally review the days papers):

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=325977

I understand the sentiments of what Maggy has said in post 79, but, just imagine if you had come across that child on your own and his mother was not there. What do you think could have happened if you had been rubbing cream into him to try and get him out from the inside of the enclosure and his mother then appeared?

I also think that society presumes women will be less likely to harm a child, so would be viewed with less suspicion.

This is unwise as, of course, there are female paedophiles too. Maybe this is why people seem to be more outraged when a woman is caught doing these things.

The most hateful comments I have heard about Myra Hindley have come from women, in particular women who have had children.

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No

Most people questioned by the police are arrested ,even the parents of a child suffocated with carbon monoxide at a camping ground ,the default position is to arrest and then ask questions ,it means nothing .

Anyone and everyone who ever came within 20ft of jimmy saville will now be screaming abuse ,such is the power of our sensationalist media .

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think the show is important. I am not a fan of hiding history. From evidence of interviews, it looks like most people in BBC knew about him.

If he was, then it should come out.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It'll be on the internet.

Fair point.

Yes, it's certainly a possibility that that might happen.

Philip Schofield said that his first contact with Jimmy Saville was at the age of 17. He was working for The Daily Mirror and his boss had told him to ring him and ask him a question not connected to child sex abuse. His sister answered and went to fetch him. The first thing he said before Philip Schofield could say anything was "she said she was over 16" :shocked: Schofield also said that he was told about him when he started working at the BBC.

For balance, his PA of many years was on the 'phone. She said that she never saw evidence of any wrongdoing and that he did not have a computer.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I do understand your viewpoint Maggy but having a close friend who was both mentally and physically abused as a child I also understand why these women want to do this.

A dear friend has had 'treatment' all her adult life in the form of counseling but nothing has been able to reduce the pain and psychological damage she went through, and still has to deal with, when she was forced to endure what was happening to her because no one would have believed what she and many others were going through at the hands of so called pillars of the community.

I don't know whether these allegations are true but as more people come forward I am starting to believe that, had he been alive, Mr Savile would have a case to answer. Unfortunately this can now never happen so having the abuse acknowledged publicly and having other people come forward and admit that they knew this was going on but did nothing will give these women the possibility of closure.

I just hope that those people who now claim to have known what was happening at the time feel some sort of responsibility for the things that they failed to act upon. Turning a blind eye to abuse is shameful.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I have to say it looks bad. I haven't paid much attention to the story presuming it to be a sensationalist documentary that might have some truth in it but ultimately inconclusive. However now it's just person after person coming out to say they were either abused by him or television personalities saying that it was an open secret/suspicion that surrounded him for years.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Assuming the abuses happened (and the evidence presented thus far would seem to indicate they did), maybe they want some sort of apology from the BBC? After all, it would seem he did at least some of them in Television Centre.

It's interesting to note that the BBC's announcements so far seem to be very carefully worded so that they are neither accusing Jimmy, nor denying he did anything. They are saying merely that they have no record of anything untoward happening. As it seems that (for whatever reason) the girls didn't make a complaint, this is probably true.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Except that's not what happened. When the PCSO's arrived the child was submerged, out of sight, and no one could tell them where they were last seen. In those circumstances I wouldn't wade into water in the hope I'd stumble across a body.

Anyway back from rumour control it's clear there have been stories circulating about jimmy saville for years, the main story for me isn't what did or didn't happen but rather did the BBC kill a previous enquiry and if so who and why decided to do that.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Exactly.

Whether dead or alive a perpritrator of a crime, if found guilty, should be punished in a fitting way. In this case peoples memory of him might change.
Similarly, someone accused of crime of which they were innocent, and executed/incarcerated, may be exonerated - whether they living or dead.

Whatever the outcome, those that loved, admired or knew him as a friend will have new worriess. Mud sticks.

I'll wait for the outcome.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

The problem is, he never can be found legally guilty of anything. You can't try a dead man, and TBH we shouldn't attempt to - he can't stand up and offer any sort of defence.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

What is surprising is the amount of people in the industry that have seemed to have suspected this. There are few of them claiming surprise and the instead the response ranges from Esther Rantzen's acceptance to Paul Gambaccini's comments that he has waited 30 years for this to come out. Louis Theoruix who did a documentary on Savile has said he attempt to broach the rumours but didn't get far because he had no evidence and didn't want to push it.

It all suggests that these rumours were persistent and widely known in the industry and yet it didn't leak in the public domain. He was even questioned about it and no paper reported it, The Sun had a reporter whose story was spiked by her editor because 'it wasn't what people wanted to read' and latter when a unnamed tabloid was going to do something on the allegations he somehow stopped it again by offering a interview to a rival (which can't be the whole story)...

Very odd.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

I came across a columnist earlier in the week who more or less alleged a conspiracy of silence amongst 'luvvies' anxious to protect one of their own and suggested that had he been a Catholic priest both he and his former employer would have been hung, drawn and quartered by now.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Point accepted Chris. You are more knowlegeable than me.

My thoughts are, that others who might have been abused may now step forward - or that the floodgates might open for attention seekers.
As you say : he's not here to defend himself.

I'll wait for the final ruling. But mud sticks.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

Absolutely. Back in the 70s (and to some extent the 80s) Saville was a very powerful entity. And in an industry where reputation and perception is everything, anyone breaking ranks and making allegations about him would be committing career suicide if not backed up by similar powerful names. It could even be argued that these silent people should share some of his alleged guilt.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

Well you'll also want to be sure you're right. If you're going to call a popular personality a child abuser you want to be sure it holds up. If it isn't proved then you would be committing career suicide and some legal troubles to boot. I don't think the silent people share any of the guilt really, unless someone really did have material that would have held up to critical inspection.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Well the Catholic church covered up multiple abuse allegations didn't they? Moving people around parishes and not co-operating with investigations? Seems like it's pretty similar rather than a double standard.

I wonder if some of those coming out now with their comments knew more than they are letting on and are now rushing to condemn him to avoid any suggestion of willingly turning a blind eye before.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

What annoys me about all this is. we're getting 'celebrities' coming forward and speaking up now about how they more or less knew or suspected what was going on.

don't they realise how that comes across, and what it says about them personally?

If you think about it as well. the BBC has a big involvement in all this.
it all revolves around Saville and the BBC at the time.

going to become very interesting soon I reckon.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

i suspect Jimmy knew where the dead bodies were. Big organisation must have lots of secrets.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

I doubt that. I just imagine they are telling the truth they didn't have complaints and were wary of getting into a investigation of a star personality because of rumours.

Re: Jimmy Saville allegations
 

This isn't looking too good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...?newsfeed=true