Budget
 

Not a bad Budget I thought. Not much mention of the crisis in the NHS, and how they are going to solve it, but no surprise there. However, it's about time the self employed their fair share, well done Phil. Hilarious to see the self employed Tory columnists going apoplectic :p: Brexit is going to cost big time, and we are all going to have to pay for 'taking back our country', from God knows who. Welcome to the real world. Lots more tax rises to come.

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:rolleyes:

What a pathetic, doom and gloom opinionated view you have. You are of course wrong. Brexit was not even themed in today's budget, was not even mentioned once. So you're wrong. (as always).

And no we won't turn this in to another brexit thread for you to slate with your wrongful, one sided, badly pessimistic views on the subject.

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Yes that was strange Brexit wasn't mentioned seeing as they are supposed to be triggering Article 50 this month . Second thoughts ;)

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Dream on. :dozey:

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The self employed get no sick pay,no maternity leave/allowance and no holiday pay..

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However they do get 'cash in hand'.

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That is meant to factored into the rates they charge in the first place.

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That may be the case for some tradespeople but many people invoice large companies and don't get cash in hand.

The Ukip-sympathetic Telegraph has gone to town on the Conservatives' promises not to raise NI. The Conservatives should have printed them on the side of a bus instead as that doesn't count as a real promise! :D
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...aise-national/

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It's not increasing NI, it's equalizing the rates in return for equalizing the benefits. Seems fair.

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hence why we all ask "how much for cash".

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Very strange considering there was talk the other day of the chancellor squirreling 60 billion away to insulate us, insulate us, what's he gonna do, burn it.

Oh yes the bus, the 30 million a day, 3 billion a week, 9 trillion an hour or what ever figure it was certain brextremists plucked out of their backsides, Phil should've read that rather than the gloomy pamphlet that dropped through all our doors, if he had we might not need insulating.

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Mere details of course, they don't tend to feature much in the OP's jaundiced stereotyping. For him the self employed are clearly all a bunch of tax fiddling cheats who milk the system. :rolleyes:

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Holiday pay isn't paid by the government anyway is it?

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:rolleyes: If you don't know from whom, by now, then you are as thick as two short planks :dozey:

Or are you simply trolling? :confused:

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------

Fixed that for you to eliminate the massive assumption you made in your statement. :rolleyes:
Not everyone who is self employed is fiddling (or can fiddle) things.

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Oh dear Mick won't be pleased with you ! http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...7&postcount=12 (however, fwiw don't object to your 'edit', so don't be too hard on him Mick ;) )

tbf 'cash in hand' was a bit 'tongue in cheek', however there are many tax advantages to being self employed, some legal, some not. Those taxed at source have no such room for manoeuvre. Employed/Self employed - pro's and cons with each. However self employed paying less NI for the same services is clearly unfair, and yesterday it was partly put right.

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I'll take my beating :D

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How can you squirrel £60bn away if you're £1trillion in debt? I guess it's a bit like taking money out on a credit card and investing it in a savings account!

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Smokers got hammered again, and this time by a variation in the way tobacco is taxed... now by "minimum price". It'll be alcohol next.

All the usual sites said "no increases for alcohol" but those taxes are indexed so happen anyway, they don't need to be announced in the budget.

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Budget seems good to me, increased money for social care, a tax rise to fund it and some cuts to perks pensioners get.

Yet the press's reaction to a minor tax increase is pathetic, how do they expect things to be funded?

I will happily pay the tax increase which I am affected by.

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The NI thing is about closing a tax loophole. For the most part we are not talking about entrepreneurs in any sense of the word. They are mostly doing the same sort of work that employees are doing. If you are going to benefit from NI contributions in the same way as employees, expect to pay the same rates.

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Like I said I am affected and have no issue with it. :)

But you can bet there is people out there throwing a fit over this.

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Yes most of them Tory 'Daily Mail' voters, which make it all the more funny :D The same voters who expect the health service to keep delivering with increased demand, but still expect nothing but tax cuts.
tbf it was Dave who said no tax rises, not Phil, who is now my hero ;)

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Self employed people do not benefit in the same way as employees. We don't get statutory sick pay. Employees do. We don't get maternity/paternity leave. We receive less from the system so it is entirely fair that we pay less in, at least as long as we're going to continue the fiction that we are actually paying in to an insurance scheme, which we're not, really. It's just income tax by other means.

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They charge more than employees are paid. That is meant to cover the other employee benefits. The longer term plans are to try and implement those other NI benefits for the self-employed. The new self-employed entitlement to state pension is now, not in 30-40 years time.
Paying out £7,720 to get £37,500 still seems a good deal for the self-employed.

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I think it might be a vote loser..

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Well looking at it this morning they are delaying it until the Autumn after a rebellion by senior Conservatives, including a government minister.

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The election is ages away so they aren't bothered. Manifesto's from all parties are irrelevant once they've been elected.

tbh it's telling to see these Tory MP's going mad over a few pence rise in tax. If only they could get so irate about the state of the Health Service, or funding in Schools. Silly me, forgot, none of them use the NHS, or send their kids to state schools. All they are interested are in tax cuts for themselves, which the plebs should fund.

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Well it will affect my daughter..she had to give up a 9-5 job due to debilitating migraine attacks.She has taken up working from home as a writers assistant and so had to go self employed so she could earn around around the attacks..So not all self employed are selfish **** avoiding paying their way...

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Let see, shall we?

No one knows, including the EU, what will happen in the Brexit negotiations.

A lot of pessimism around, but how about a bit of optimism instead?

Unless there's dire hard EU loving fanatics here, which I don't think there are, leaving the EU was the right decision. Even a okay-ish deal will put us in a better position long term than the EU. (and yes I do expect there to be some pain soon, but it will pass.)

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Yep, as we know, there's no gain without pain and there's plenty of the latter ahead for the EU regardless of Brexit.

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Correct. It's odd how some people will deride negative stereotyping but don't mind indulging in it when it suits.

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To be self employed one has to register as self employed and that will mean they will fill out tax returns .No one can simply say "i am self employed" and decide not to pay tax or nics.Also i would point out that self employed people have always had access to the state pension and other contribution based benefits via class 2 nics ,which although voluntary are paid on top of compulsory Nics (class 4)

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What decade are you living in?

Cash maybe king. But as a day to day transaction facility it's on life support.

Self employed tradesmen now need to have cardpay facilities, and many apps as well as Paypal are used.

Cash in hand is a thing of the past.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:49 ----------

Cigarettes should be £10 for 20, hell no make it £20 , a £1 a cig.

---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:52 ----------

Possibly but it impacts a very small section of the electorate.

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

And will this impact her?

Does she earn more than £16,000 a year? ( I think that's the correct figure) if not this won't impact her, she may even be better off.

As ever there's loads detail,behind the headlines

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It's all about making the tax system fairer. Listen to Phil and Mother Theresa, they don't tell lies ;)

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You should be in marketing or politics - empty sound bites, no factual back up....

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I think Mr K is joking. :D

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£193/year with a return of £1,890/year. How is that not a good deal?

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I was being ironic, as was Mr K....

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To clarify my earlier comments a bit more, I dont support targeting a part of the population that is perhaps considered the easiest to hit, I expect they thought by targeting self employed it would not generate much bad publicity. But more that I support tax rises in general.

Certainly I think the UK population somehow needs reeducating that tax rises need to happen, because of all the tax cuts in the past decade or so, everyone seems to have got used to an idea that we can just have everlasting tax cuts which is clearly not sustainable unless you are david cameron who thinks we can make it work by just dismantling the public sector.

The party policy at election time to promise no rise in income tax, NI and VAT was just irresponsible.

May seems to have her hands tied by promises of the previous leader, she could untie the hands by winning an election without that manifesto but of course winning the election is not a certainty even with labour been as unpopular as they are now strange things can happen.

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NI increases scrapped.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39278968

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Good grief that is a fairly quick U-Turn Andrew.

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I like how in PMQ's idiotic Jeremy Corbyn, claims the government is in chaos over the U-Turn. So laughable from him, but I liked TM's reply that if she wants to take lectures on 'Chaos', she will approach him and his party.

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The whole thing's a farce but to its credit, the Government has moved swiftly. After Osborne's omnishambles budget, the Government took two months to drop the higher taxes on static caravans and pasties.

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Corbyn - Pot kettle black... lol

He couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside. He's utterly inept and deeply uninspiring.

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Gawd, ol' Jeremy blew a big chance to embarrass the Government. He's just not quick-witted enough :dozey:

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This is it, the stupid fool won't step aside and as along as he remains, Labour are finished.

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Rumour is the unelectable Corbyn will go next year.

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Perhaps the poor old bugger just isn't sure which way is OUT :erm:

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Looks like "spreadsheet" Phil's just had that pasty tax moment.

What looks good on paper can really backfire. Didn't take long. :(

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If political parties break the pledges of their election manifesto the public have long memories and don't forget it..

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I guess the issues are:
- How the Chancellor replaces the missing revenue.
- Will there be any political ramifications? Osborne survived his Omnishambles Budget but the knives from the leavers might be sharpened for Hammond if he makes another mistake.

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But what do you do, when ALL three main parties have engaged in U-Turns?

The Liberal Democrats said they would not increase University Tuition fees, in 2010, they formed a Coalition government with the Tories and increased Tuition fees, Nick Clegg took years of beatings for that and I think ultimately is the reason the Lib Dems are down to just 9 Members of Parliament today.

Labour have done U-Turns, look when Labour abolished 10p in the Tax band, causing middle and low earners ending up paying way more tax, they did not bring it back but they made concessions in later Budgets take make up for their terrible decision.

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l suppose when it comes down to it it is who do you trust the most and personally l don't trust any of them if l am honest...

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I think failing to keep an election pledge is politically far worse than a u-turn. I do agree that a u-turn shows that the Government is listening to some extent.

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Silly Philly.. That's 2 billion he's going to have to find from somewhere (didn't mention where did he?), or is the increase in Social Care funding going to be quietly forgotten and even more pressure on the NHS? Doesnt the silly bugger realise that the point of a 'Budget' is that it's supposed to add up?
People, not just the Tories, have got their priorities all wrong. If you want public services you have to pay, a few pence in tax will seem irrelevant next time you or your family need the NHS.
Same old Tories, increasing inequalities everywhere, and no one should be surprised.

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i'm not happy now i know white van man pays less than i do the evening out of tax differences has been swept under the carpet :)

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Interesting observation from the right-wing Spectator magazine: “This fiasco will be watched with amazement in European capitals. If Theresa May caves in under pressure, then her opponents in Brexit talks will apply pressure.”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/

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The Spectator is pretty good, always worth reading their political columnists (and avoiding Brenden O'Neill).

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Have you noticed that a particularly loud and belligerent CF voice is very quiet all of a sudden? ;)

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Nope, you still seem to be posting :erm:

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Caved in under pressure, or recognised the electoral arithmetic? If the latter, the EU are going to find her harder to deal with, not softer. She can't afford to come back from Brussels with a bad deal.

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Doesn't seem very 'tough' so far, a bit wibbly/wobbly if the Budget is anything to go by. We're more desperate for a deal than the EU. There's more of them too...

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Ouch that hurt. Where did you get such a big handbag?

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If you thought that was big:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/03/10.jpg

:D

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Hmmm, is that a big button or a very small laptop? :)

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The electoral arithmetic is in her favour as long as Corbyn is opposition leader. She buckled as The Spectator knows.

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Pressure from her own MPs. The electoral consequences don't seem a problem, she could drown a kitten from the dispatch box and Corbyn wouldn't be able to gain from it.

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:D Good one; PMSL!

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H'mmm. So if he hadn't changed his mind on this, he wouldn't be listening. Because he listened and kindly withdrew the measure, he's done a u-turn.

Seems like the politicians can't win either way. We should be giving credit to a party that listens to criticism, not ridiculing it.

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No doubt withdrawing it is good but alas one suspects some other stealth taxes will be coming our way to replace it so perhaps its best for you to post your comments then about the chancellor of the exchequer OB.

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My comment was only on the U-turn comment, Den. What comes next remains to be seen, but remember he does actually have to balance the books. Fantasy economics is what Corbyn and his cronies stand for.

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We are not talking about the totally unelectable Corbyn as we are talking about the current incumbent's of 10 Downing Street OB unless you did not realise that.;)

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Which of course means that the books must be balanced. Stealth taxes are one answer, provided of course it can be squared with the manifesto! :D

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Putting the top rate of Income Tax back up to 50p would have wiped the smile off a few Tory MPs faces. They'd soon forget about the self employed then. Go on Philly go for it - you don't like them either !

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Maybe ask Osborne to take on another job, that will generate more tax revenue! :D
The other side of the coin is spending. The new grammar schools look set to be booted into the long grass by Parliament so that saves a bit of dosh but not enough.

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It might give socialists a warm fuzzy feeling but it would cause income tax revenues to ACTUALLY fall. Just ask the French.