Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I am aware that Virgin Media Business are about to revamp their (outdated!) business cable broadband offerings to include a 50 Mb/s service shortly.

They will also offer a proper static IP address option (single or multiple address options).

All sounds great but they plan to use the Superhub to do this. In order to provide the Fixed IP addresses they will use the Superhub to form a L2TP tunnel into the Virgin media network. They have testers doign this now I gather.

Given that I want to upgrade from the 10 Mb/s VMB service to the 50 Mb/s one I am nervous about the Superhub replacing a rock solid stable Scientific Atlanta EPC2100 modem.

They will be offering a 'NO NAT' option whereby the LAN side of the Superhub will have a public routable IP address, hwoever to run the tunnel is going to put more of a load on the device.

I read with interest Ingi's experiences of his Superhub needing multiple reboots per day, and don't look forward to havign to do that.

Reading various posts here I know there are some that have no problems with the Superhub, but others do, especially when stressing it more. Given the extra configuration & load to operate the tunnel I am concerned about stability.

I assume that negotiations with this mystery new supplier of superhubs are too early for VMB to be using a version other than the Netgear.

However given that there will be a NO NAT option as well as tunning options this implies somethign about these Superbhubs will be different to those used for residential service.

Does anyone have any more insight into what will be used?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

The modem is of course a slightly different model, but I'm not sure on the restrictions around sharing information on it, so will check before I post more.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Thanks Nopanic it would be good to know whatever you are able to share, as currently the reports I am reading here abou tthe Superhub will put me off taking the new business services, as I can't take a risk with stability.

However if this is a different model device that could give me additional confidence!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I wasn't able to get an answer today, but to be honest business connections bring with them an extra level of response. Saying that, I totally understand your concerns.

I will try again on Monday, if Ben or Dan is about, they might be able to share more info on it.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Were you able to get the OK to share some information on this with us?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I guess the answer is no :-)

Originally expecting the new services to be launched on 31st May, when calling I was told further delays - of approx 3 weeks. Hopefully this isn't due to issues with the business version of the Superhub!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Igni also reports that in Bridge Mode his SH works perfectly and he has a decent router sitting behind it.

The replacement brand SH will be from a top notch supplier. The clue was in Igni's revalation!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

It is not a replacement actually we are having dual manufacturers of the same device with the same performance and interface to ensure that we have no issues with providing stock.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

It will not be possible to use the Business fixed IP service in a bridge mode, since the router VM supply needs to for an L2TP tunnel into the VM network.

I understood that the Business service would use different hardware, as the current Superhub doesn't have L2TP capabilities.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

VM have actually specified they want something with wonky wifi and routing issues?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

same frontend, but likely different backend code. so same featureset but with different underlying code delivering thsoe features. At the very least there will be netgear's brand removed from the advanced pages.

possibly also different underlying chipset to deliver the features, although on paper it will be same features like 4xgigabit port it wouldnt surprise me if the wireless chipset is changed at the very least.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

LOL :p:

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Its bad enough handing out SA v+ boxes " But I want a samsung, waaa waaa" now it will be "I want a cisco superhub waaaaaaa"

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Aye. I can see people calling india, telling them their hub is faulty and getting a new one shipped. Repeat process until you are lucky enough to get the new one.

One good thing about offshore, they are more than happy to send out new kit at the drop of a hat just to get rid of you.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Business support is purely UK..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

The will be very little difference and both will offer the same performance and identical interface.

You will be issued them side by side from central stores and you are to replace them or fit them on a first box that gets picked up system.

If we send out a replacement then the first box within reach of the picker will be the one sent out and it has been designed this way to prevent picking and choosing.

It is not a Cisco box either.;)

---------- Post added at 22:34 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Little point they are using the same software and interface and will perform identically.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Talking about the second coming of the superhub, praise be to the superhub.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

My hub that was rebooting every few hours has been online in another area for 6 days. I think there is a compatibility issue with the old amps where I live. Vmng300 has been solid in my house. Roll on the 100meg rollout, wonder if it will reboot after that!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

My rebooting problem seems to have sorted itself out.

Only 1 spontaneous reboot in the last 10 days. No changes my end so your amp theory could be right. Definately some sort of a network issue IMO.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Thanks Kymmy...

My original question was whether there was any more information available about the Superhub that the VM Business service will use, which I gather is a different device to the residential one in part due to the fact that the device will need to form an L2TP tunnel to support the static IP services that VM Business will be offering.

As this service isn't yet launched information might not be available, which is fine. But any clarification would be really useful.

Also I gather there is a further 3 week delay in launch of the new VMB services, and I wonder if Superhub issues are the reason.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

As the base for the service appears to be a version of the s****hub and they are still having firmware problems with the residential version, it could be the cause of the delay.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

That's exactly what I am wondering to be honest. There was a comment here that it was a completely different device, but it is still referred to as a Superhub.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

It makes sense to me that the replacement SH would be used for VM Business.

But we're all trying to get inside VM's head. Some might say, VM's head is stuck in the sand and that they reckon their current SH to be the dogs because the majority of users aren't complaining.

Others might say that there is more than tacit recognition of the current SH's shortcomings because a replacement is on the way (no pun intended - go figure).

In the latter case, it would be remarkable (or pig headed) if the current SH would be supplied with a VM Business service.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Both Superhubs will be issued alongside each other with no distinction between them as they will be using the same firmware and interface so the would be no issue.

The only difference will be in that the are two suppliers.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Masque - this is about the Superhub to be issued with the Virgin media business service not the residential service. There will be a difference as the Business one will support the creation of an L2TP tunnel. I don't believe the residential one has that capability.

This isn't a thread knocking the Superhub at all just about trying to get some understanding of the forthcoming Business Superhub if any information is available, neither is it about the forthcoming identical Superhub from another supplier, unless of course the business service will use the same device after all and there is L2TP capability that is hidden from view.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

It will be built by both suppliers though.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Masque works with residential so you can't blame him for lack of knowledge for business.

If I were a business customer though wishing to upgrade I'd be afraid, very afraid!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

if the supplier is diferent ie. not netgear then the firmware will also be different because of different chips.

not to mention that the current firmware is netgear branded.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

So is the Superhub to be used by Virgin Media Business the same as the current residential one?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Who knows? VM are not releasing that info ATM. It is doing VM no favours as it leads to speculation that it will be.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I agree which is why I was seeking clarification as it sounded as if he may have missed the fact this was about the business services and not residential.

I am a customer of VM Business on their 10 Mb/s service with 'fixed' IP address, and keen to upgrade to their 50 Mb/s service, which was originally due to be launched on 31st May, but has been delayed some 3 weeks.

Given that the way they will provide the true static IP addresses (and static IP subnets) will be via an L2TP tunnel on the router there will be no option to use Modem only mode.

Given the service has been absolutely rock solid stable for the past three years using a Scientific Atlanta modem connected my my own Cisco 881W router I am keen to find out as much as I can about how the new service will be provided before making a decision on upgrade.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I do find it shocking VM are going to use this for a business service.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

The will be a different chipset but they are keeping the firmware and interface the same, obviously it will be written for the 2nd model but apart from that the will be very little difference and you will not have a distinction like we have with the 2 V+ Vboxes, as you will get the modem that is installed and not given a choice because they have been designed to work in the same way and with the same performance.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

you basically mean same feature set and interface design.

but with a different chipset and different firmware supplier the actual performance could well be very different.

eg. the current superhub cant get above 500mbit on wired gigabit and has poor wireless performance, its entirely possible the other superhub will not have these issues.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

They have designed it to perform exactly the same or near as damn it to the present Superhub, the interface will be the same so as to ensure that everyone knows where everything is which saves on training.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

What I find astounding is that VM have not released to their business customers exactly what equipment they are going to have to use for the "improved" service.

The delays in deployment would appear to mirror the delays in the residential S****hub firmware deployment.

That in itself would lead to speculation that it will be supplied via the same kit!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

You've got it in one pip - hence my concern!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I got it in one for you earlier!

Be afraid, be very afraid!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

There's a huge difference between buggy firmware and well written firmware. Igni made this point in another thread.

I'd expect the spec to be the same.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

There is nothing wrong with the internal spec. As you say, it's all down to the firmware.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I'm astonished at the way thie answer to this question seems to be avoided by the VM insiders.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

the wireless isnt great, it would probably need redesigning inside but mostly firmware, not tested it myself but apparently modem only still gives more jitter so maybe there is hardware problems, either way if it was asda price it would be better than netgears shoddy attempt

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I was referring to the chipset, nothing more.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt since most here are on the residential side. However I did note that there was a very quick jump to defend the Superhub and to point out there will be no differences, yet the question wasn't about the alternative manufacturer of the residential Superhub, nor was this a criticism of the Superhub at all.

I must admit I am beginning to form the same conclusion that they are one and the same, since the VMB delays seem to map to the firmware delays we are seeing. Hopefully I am wrong!

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

A reasonable stance to take due to the lack of information forthcoming for business users.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

you said "internal spec", how was i meant to know that :D

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I think his source just heard something and passed it on .. he doesn't seem to know much about it ..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Does anyone know anything about the forthcoming Virgin Media BUSINESS Superhub?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I've got one setup, service wise it does as it should but thats pretty much as far as I go with testing .. get it to work and make sure it works with all levels of service it should ..

Seems to be very much like the SH to be honest, clearly its got some big differences, but you need someone from Netgear or VM to allow the specs to be released to find anything interesting.

Sorry I can't be of much us .. doesn't Ste (cable team) work for business ?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

So another different superhub again for business?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Its a different modem, I don't think Superhub is in the name .. I can't remember what they decided to call it ..

Looks pretty much the same though .. but then the Superhub does look good.

In fact scrap that .. I've only seen what they have used to test, so it could just be a test case .. case ..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

So it's Netgear then, thoguh good to hear a different product to the residential one. Looking at the standard Netgear products this one seems to be the one that meets the requirements - ie L2TP and support for Static subnets, albeit in a different case.

http://www.netgear.com/service-provi...CG3000DCR.aspx

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I really don't know .. I might not be talking about the same device ..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

giving false information again.....

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Its a business ploy to lead you away from the new Supersuperhub ..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

whats it called, the amazinghub

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

'Magic' Hub.

As in it magically stops working when there is no plausible reason or influence that could cause it to do so.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

They would be morons to keep the superhub name when launching a new business product after it has been so thoroughly dragged through the mud on the consumer side, even if it is the same kit with some firmware tweaks. It will probably use the Tivo convention of being stupidly long. So the "Virgin Media Business Hub powered by Netgear."

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I spoke to Business sales today again. They now have a date of 1st July for the new services. Told me the service does come with a combined modem/router but that its not the same device residential use (as far as he knows!).

He also confirmed that the price for business 50 Mb/s service with phone line will be £54 a month, which will include the existing 60 mins inclusive call package for UK & selected international calls. However they are adding free calls to UK mobiles now (first 10 mins).

The 10 Mb/s service will stay, but the 20 Mb/s service will be replaced by a business 30 Mb/s service at £44 per month (including phone line). True static IP addresses will be available on all packages. for £5 a month for a single static IP or £10 for 5 static IP addresses.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

So nothing like what you were originally told :rolleyes:

Any word on upload speeds?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Upload speeds will be 3 Mb/s for the 30 Mb/s service and 5 Mb/s for the 50. So the same as residential, and these will follow the upload upgrade plans being rolled out at the moment.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

10Mb upload? Already rolled out for residential in my area but no change for VMB

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Sorry didn't ask about the 10 Mb/s service... I assume it should be uplifted to 1 Mb/s. The 10 Mb/s service is still going to be offered, so I don't see them not changeing to upload on that too. Might be worth a call to them about that.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

If it happens then it'll just be a config change, not much point in calling them..

Also if I call them they might start charging me for the fixed IP's ;)

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

I wonder how much they'll charge for upgrading?? Just that they wanted £20 just for setting up caller-ID :rolleyes:

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Wow they activated Caller ID for me free! There is a monthly charge, but I didn't have to pay an activation fee.

Upgrade costs from an existing package or where cable is present is £49, or £99 if it's a new install. Upgrade does involve an engineer visit.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Can you get this with out a telephone line

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Yes it is available without a phone line. £29 for 50 Mb/s and £24 for 30 Mb/s

all of these are 3 year contracts.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Yes

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

3 year contract, ouch!!!

Cheers

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

And still not here.. that's now 18+ months since they promised the new packages :cry:

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Its coming, just a small delay. I got my briefing on the new services during the week.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

How small is the delay this time? I was originally told Jan/Feb which was then pushed to May and then June and then most recently was told 1st July is the definite launch.

I know this is the danger of disclosing the dates. But as Kymmy points out this is now 18+ months late.

Are you able to confirm if the delays are due to buggy Superhub firmware? Everyone seems silent when this is asked, yet some people have said the business device will be different, however to the untrained eye the repeated delays in the new business services do seem to be tracking the delays in new Superhub firmware fairly closely.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

On Cable, everything's always 'Coming Soon'.

Surely you've noticed that by now. :)

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

The Superhub has given us things to consider.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Is there any clarity on whether the Business SuperHub & residential Superhub are one and the same device?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

They are two separate devices ..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Thanks for the confirmation. So I assume then that the things you are having to consider for the Business Superhub are unrelated in any way to the work being undertaken on the residential superhub.

I guess you can't comment on the revised launch date?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Cost of services will be interesting.. When I first started on VMB it was a case of having advantages over the residential services such as:

1# Faster upload
2# Free tech support calls
3# Included fixed IP's
4# No traffic management

Now if you take the details put forward in the thread the only free advantage will be the no Traffic Management (and that's only on the lower packages.)

I'm seriously wondering what the advantages are in being tied down to another long term contract and paying for the upgrade??

Too little too late for an uncompetitive package at a dear price?? We'll have to wait and see..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Also they are no longer just fixed IPs but proper Static IPs and available on both 30Mb & 50Mb

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Are you 100% on that? From what I have seen its the same device.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I called Business sales today - was told I was due 1st July, but now likely to be a 2-3 month delay. Is this right? As Kymmy says this is now 18+ months late. Though the person I spoek to said it's all gone very quiet now.

VMB has been left way behind by other business broadband providers. The unfortunate situation for me is that BT Infinity isn't going to give me much more than the 10 Mb/s I get from VMB now so I have little choice but wait.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I don't think it will be as long as that at all. Will see what I can find out.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Thanks it would be useful to know.....

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

You're lucky, best I can get besides VM/VMB is 6.5Mb down 800Kb up with ADSL. No ADSL2 or Infinity here for many years yet..

Still though being a small company I can't justify spending more than the current costs especially with our industry being hit so hard :(

I really do hope they are going to think about freely upgrading existing customers and not just try to rely on new customers or extortionate upgrade fees for services that we should be on anyway :(

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

I gather the upgrade fee for existing customers is £50
I had a call back from VMB and had a much longer conversation with someone who seemed very clued up on the next steps.

He acknowledged the delay and apologised. Said there were multiple reasons but one of them IS firmware related on the business Superhub. I asked about that device and was told it is identical hardware to the residential one but with a different version of firmware with the extra L2TP options in. However some good news is that the modem part will form the L2TP tunnel to support fixed IP not the router side and thus bridge mode will be supported, though not at launch.

He told me the likely launch time is during August as they are waiting on Netgear to issue new firmware.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Yikes. Bridge mode not supported at launch. Where have we heard this one before?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

That may be the partial reason for delay though. Waiting on the firmware.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

That's going to mess up a lot of business networks

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

In what respect?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Use of owned or managed hardware at a guess - oh and the need for more than 4 network ports :cool:

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

The current business modem is owned by VMB. More than 4 ports can be acheived by connecting to a switch.

The issue I was concerned about was if VMB insist on their router holding the public IP address, then all devices behind that woudl have a private address ie 192.168.xx.xx or 10.0.0.0/8 etc. However they are going to offer a no NAT option with multiple fixed IP addresses than can be assigned to customer equipment.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Did he specify which year?? :rolleyes:

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

No he didn't - good point! :)

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

clever guy :)

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

But they can only do a no NAT fixed IP with bridge mode ;) which has already been stated will not be available at launch.. hence my point that it'll mess up a lot of businesses who don't realise this on ordering. ;)

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

They can do a No NAT without bridge mode too apparently.

Also latest news on availability - September - every month that goes my sees this go back by a month.

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Does Business traffic get a higher priority in the local network over residential traffic?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

They used to say that you had a better contention ratio but that info was never believed and seems to have vanished from their website ;)

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

My understanding is that QoS is deployed to favour business circuits. Do Kymmy or Ben agree?

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Honestly no idea.. It seemed no faster when I switched from VM to VMB and results were no different.. Only someone with access to the config could probably agree or not..

Re: Superhub & Virgin Media Business
 

Sept/Oct was the date I got from someone associated with the project though they did say that they're not privvy to the actual exact release details..

They did say that this would probably be 50 and 100Mb only with the 10/20 being left as existing packages..

I hope though that they realise that the can't leave the 10/20 packages as is especially as they are so out-dated..