Cable Forum - Catalonia Independence

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Taf	01-10-2017 12:58

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

How would we feel if a large city or area decided to call a vote for their independence from the UK?

papa smurf

01-10-2017 12:59

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35918602)

How would we feel if a large city or area decided to call a vote for their independence from the UK?

like Scotland did

Osem	01-10-2017 13:17

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35918602)

How would we feel if a large city or area decided to call a vote for their independence from the UK?

Not good but I wouldn't want them beaten up. If it were deemed a legal process then what could we do about that? If it were deemed illegal then the result of any vote would be ignored in any event.

This hasn't happened out of the blue it's been going on for years and clearly whatever grievances there are very deep rooted and haven't been resolved.

If we spool forward and the vote is for independence, who's going to recognise an independent Catalonia I wonder and how would that work out in the real world? The EU clearly won't and will be as obstructive as it can be for obvious reasons so what benefit would there be to the region of separation as opposed to the huge risks/costs? :shrug:

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35918604)

like Scotland did

Yes Sturgeon's been very quiet about that lately, I wonder why. :)

pip08456

01-10-2017 13:23

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35918601)

Is there any question that those in the region who're dead set against independence are being intimidated or prevented from taking part in this vote in order to prevent it happening? I haven't seen/heard any evidence of that. Of course they may well decide that voting legitimises something they consider illegitimate and refuse to take part and I'd fully understand that. Whatever calls for violence there have been by officials either side of the debate, it doesn't look much like those being responsible for it are the ones being beaten in the coverage so far but I'm certain it will happen. It'll be interesting to see what happens with whatever results are obtained from this vote. How anyone can have any confidence in the outcome is beyond me. Who's verifying anything? It's worse than Tower Hamlets. There'll be all sports of claims from one side and the other about undue influence, intimidation, etc. It's a complete mess and a very big one that's for sure. The hornet's nest has been stirring for many years and it won't go away any sooner.

There are people from International governments (about 30) overseeing the vote.

Osem	01-10-2017 13:28

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35918611)

There are people from International governments (about 30) overseeing the vote.

... and surely what they'll witness is large amounts of chaos which undermines its validity won't they? Nobody could seriously claim this vote has been conducted properly and fairly in which case the result, whichever way it goes, can't be deemed safe surely. :shrug:

pip08456

01-10-2017 13:34

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Your guess is as good as mine.

Meanwhile 337 reportedly injured by the police.

Osem	01-10-2017 13:37

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35918613)

Your guess is as good as mine.

Meanwhile 337 reportedly injured by the police.

Yup. Let's hope things don't escalate out of control.

Ignitionnet

01-10-2017 13:43

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

This is worth reading for context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence

pip08456

01-10-2017 14:14

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35918614)

Yup. Let's hope things don't escalate out of control.

I think it will as it's just been reported by Sky that if whatever votes manage to be counted are for independence the the President will still declare it in 48hrs.

There is definitely more ahead if it turns out to be true.

Damien

01-10-2017 14:40

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

It makes you appreciate how the UK, including the nationalists, handled the question of Scottish independence. The SNP sought a legal referendum, the UK have it, and it was largely peaceful.

The Spanish government have badly misjudged this. There will be a lot more sympathy to Catalonia after this. Shocking scenes to have people beaten attempting to vote, even if the vote itself is provocative and unwise.

Osem	01-10-2017 16:19

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

450 now reported as being injured in clashes with the police most of which appear to be as the result of police charges against unarmed people according to the Mayor of Barcelona.

https://twitter.com/AdaColau?ref_src...urope-41461032

I'm sure it isn't all one way traffic but haven't seen any evidence of the use of weapons etc. by protestors so far.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41461032

Video of police beating people with their hands in the air. Nice.

Damien

01-10-2017 16:22

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

I've seen videos where firemen intervene, stepping between the protestors and the police, so the police beat them too.

Osem	01-10-2017 16:33

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35918640)

I've seen videos where firemen intervene, stepping between the protestors and the police, so the police beat them too.

Maybe they too were provocatively holding their hands in the air... This sort of thing is madness. Can you imagine the hatred and resentment this is going to unleash out there? I feel it will only harden opinion amongst those who want independence just like it would have done here if British troops had intervened in the Scottish referendum.

What's the EU got to say about all of this violence? I haven't seen anything reported from the likes of Juncker. This is more reminiscent of Putin's Russia than a leading member of the EU.

Ignitionnet

01-10-2017 16:33

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

I am not sure but think the Council may be obliged to look into http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the...article-7.html

However this is really hard to do, due to it requiring a democratic vote. It merits looking into nonetheless. What Madrid are doing here is unacceptable. Not sure what else can be said for right now. This is depressing but not the first time an EU nation has used police to attack innocent protesters and I doubt the last. :(

Just one for those trying to make political capital out of this.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/10/1.jpg

Ignitionnet

01-10-2017 16:34

Re: Riot police in stand off as illegal Catalonia independence vote begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35918642)

What's the EU got to say about all of this violence? I haven't seen anything reported from the likes of Juncker.

I genuinely hadn't seen this post when I posted the one above...

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:34.

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