Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The lad has his PIP Tribunal in a couple of hours.

In an old, hot, stuffy building undergoing major refurbishment. Others who have attended there said that sometimes the builders noise drowned-out what was being said, causing confusion and a bit of upset to both sides.

Fingers crossed, it's been a long road to today.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Good luck taf.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Very best of luck Taff. :tu:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Good luck Taf hope it all goes well for your boy.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

It was obvious they were batting for us by the way they wheedled things out of the lad. But they said they will have to spend time conferring before making a decision that will stand with the DWP.

We have to wait for the brown envelope now.

They didn't seem at all surprised by the blatant lies the assessor put in my son's report. But the chances of getting the assessor reprimanded or worse are zero to bugger all. The DWP have closed ranks.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Hope it works out for you Taf and the process doesn't cause you anymore worry.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Hope you and your lad get the right decision. :tu:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

+1

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

+2

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The Tribunal results have arrived.

From 2 points for daily living and 4 for mobility, therefore no PIP payments, they have awarded 8 points for daily living and 10 for mobility, so Standard Rate for both. Until February 2022.

PHEW!

If anyone else gets screwed by the ATOS-Capita-DWP system for PIP, I wholeheartedly suggest not giving up but forcing a tribunal.

DWP now get the chance to block the tribunal decision.


Arrears should paid to when his DLA stopped (21st February) but Carers Allowance can only be backdated 3 months.

:cleader: :cleader: :cleader: :cleader: :cleader: :cleader: :cleader:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Great news Taff. :tu:

Just goes to show that there is a meaningful mechanism to review and correct bad decisions.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Fantastic news Taf.:tu:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Delighted for your lad Taf :tu:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

That must be a relief for you.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Glad to hear it was at least partly successful. My father is waiting for the date of his appeal, the feedback that I got was the assessor was very unprofessional kept tapping his foot and just seemed to want the meeting over with.

My dad was so upset he wasn't going to appeal, but the fact that his condition was treatable if he hadn't been dealt with by a bungling NHS doctor (with lots of history of it) and his doctor writing to DVLA to take away his PSV licence has made him angry enough to appeal.

He was also upset when recently another retired couple he knows have had their assessment and kept their DLA, this couple spend most of the year at their villa in Spain (my father couldn't make that trip). Recently this couple were showing pictures of themselves at the top of Pen y fan, my father wouldn't be able to walk the length of the car park!

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The fact is that all these wrong decisions are costing the taxpayer a fortune (it costs a few hundred pounds for each case to go to a tribunal) and is greatly upsetting to vulnerable people and their carers.

The first stage of the appeals process is to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration. This is where the DWP are supposed to look at the case afresh and correct any bad decisions.

However, it's been revealed that staff have been set targets to uphold the original decision. Therefore, in the majority of cases, a Mandatory​ Reconsideration will always uphold the original decision- a total waste of everybody's time.

However, as Taf has found, the majority of appeals are won at tribunal.

My own PIP is to be reassessed and because of the problems above, I've had to have the form completed by a lawyer specialising in benefit law.

It really shouldn't be like this.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

A clerk told me that my MR request letter was the most concise and accurate he had seen, and that it made the original award letter and assessor's report look like a pack of lies despite all the evidence they had. He said it was par for the course with Capita, but complaints by both claimants and bodies like CAB were being rebuffed as soon as they were raised.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

IT is disgraceful how some people are being treated a friend of mine who has severe mental health problems ,lost her DLA for a year before she was sent for waiting for PIP assessment, she was then granted it for 3 years but the year she waited was included in this ,which she got back money. This was last year then they asked her to go in front of a nurse to see if she can work that was 3 months ago and she is waiting the outcome. They say they can call them in at anytime, No wonder she has mental health issues and depression, I know there are plenty Dodgers on the books who just want to take money all the time and have nothing wrong with them, but it is the people who need the care most that get knocked about .

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Lone parents with children under two have won a court battle to prevent them being affected by the Benefit Cap. The Government says it will appeal.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

If perfectly able people didn't abuse the system, there'd be no need or justification for checks and assessments. Just because some people claim to be disabled doesn't mean they are. Maybe those folks who're angry about assessments ought to also to be angry about the serial malingerers and cheats we all know exist. They are the reason genuine people are made to jump through hoops to claim benefits and shame on them not the people who're trying to prevent the abuse.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The Governments own figures believe that there is less than half a percent of fraud within the DLA/PIP system.

Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong with taking steps that the correct amount of money is going to the right people.

The way to do this isn't by letting private companies milk the taxpayer for shoddy assessments that aren't fit for purpose, repeatedly testing and retesting people like your son who will never get better etc etc.

Perhaps we ought to repeatedly check MP expense claims again and again.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

A person I know on a PIP related forum was told her assessment was going to be recorded by DWP-Capita. Normally you have to provide your own equipment, ensure the assessor is willing to be recorded, and hand one copy to the assessor at the end of the session.

But this session was recorded without the assessor's knowledge.

The assessor gave a very bad report, the recording was checked and played to him/her, and the whole report changed to reflect reality, not the lies, omissions and incorrect assumptions she/he had made.

Will this tactic be repeated to keep the assessors truthful? They won't say...

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

great news taf :)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

How about we kill two birds with one stone we cease using these thoroughly discredited and completely ineffectual private company's to do the assessments and hand them over to the NHS who then charge the DWP a fee for each assessment. NHS gets more cash and the DWP gets a true report on a persons illness and effects on daily life so has to spend less time and resources cleaning up the mess the private company's constantly make. Only reason i can see the DWP wouldn't want this is because they couldn't issue quotas to NHS doctors as they do to the current company's though yes i know officially the DWP doesn't have quotas to be failed but unofficially everyone knows they do.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

They won't do that Rizzy as its a good idea which would get wide support and those at the top don't like good ideas that cost less and have less chaos , misery and less financial mess to pick up and one gets a very true picture of ones health and its effects on their daily lives.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Half this forum see to be claiming DLA/PIP. I'm sure the are all genuine, but its interesting how many castigate anyone else that might be in need, or have the temerity to claim as they must be 'malingerers and cheats'.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Why should we not all be genuine? as perhaps you want to walk a mile in many of our shoes? and then you might realise many of our disabilities and illnesses that give us considerable impairments and thus many of us have considerable daily living and mobility needs because of that.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

I did say you were all genuine Den. It's those that have a go a benefit claimants, but claim themselves. The amount of DLA fraud is very low.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

to be fair you can get sound advice on how to swing a decent claim ;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Far too sensible.

Also how can ministers offload government money to private individuals without outsourcing?

The absolute biggest weakness of the assessment system is how the DWP and the NHS dont work together. Even if consultant names are supplied they are rarely contacted by the DWP.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Because NHS consultants give honest reports that don't make it easy for the DWP to maintain it's quotas also there is little pressure the DWP can bring to bear on a well regarded consultant without serious pushback from the other consultants. Despite all the official denials on a quota system operating within the DWP countless former employees and hacked emails have bought the truth to light. I'm like 99% of people in that i want fraudsters found and severely punished ideally with custodial sentences but that's not what is happening under the current system perversely the fraudsters actually prosper within this system. They get to know it inside and out not having the distractions genuine claimants have like pain, mobility issues, psychological problems and just the physical limitations that come from a genuine condition.

I don't have all the answers but the fact we have a state health system that treats people with medical conditions but has no official role in the assessment process for health related benefits speaks volumes about the governments real agenda in all this. I'm fortunate that i deal with four consultants all of whom have volunteered to help in anyway they can with the DWP should i need it but not everyone is so fortunate and they shouldn't have to be fortunate as their consultants should be involved in any assessment process.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The problem is that doctors aren't really there to challenge what patients tell them about their conditions and how they are affected by them. Now in many cases those things may be obvious and undeniable but in others they may not be so the consultant would be put in a difficult situation if he/she was at odds with what the patient was claiming and I'm not sure they would appreciate that extra responsibility and any adverse effects on their doctor/patient relationships. :shrug: Doctors do need to be involved in the assessment process where there's a medical issue but I'm not sure they should be the ones who're treating the people in question even though they clearly would need to have access to any relevant reports etc from the claimant's doctor(s). It's a really difficult problem. :confused:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The simple fact that the ATOS / Capita "medical professionals" who carry out the very short assessments (less than an hour) are usually paramedics, physiotherapists or young nurses shows how the system is being rigged to deny applicants the aid they deserve.

At least at tribunal you get a proper time-served doctor, a disability specialist and an unbiased serving judge.

But not for long, as moves are afoot again to move everything online with DWP-paid tribunal panels.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

ATOS / Capita "so called medical professionals" could diagnose the common cold.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

I hope you mean "couldn't" ;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

:clap:

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

:clap:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Opps. :o:


Yes I did mean "could not"

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Most people with longterm illnesses are under at least one consultant and that consultant will be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the patient both has and is affected by a condition and are happy to support those patients. Whilst GP's may not have the time to categorically confirm a condition for the sake of expedience that is rarely the case with consultant's who don't keep people on their lists if they do not believe and have medical evidence to support a condition. As I've said before even when a specific diagnosis may not be possible they have the means to confirm a problem exists, my experience is that consultant's are happy to give information on their patients even if the DWP don't bother asking for it.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

My consultant was happy to give a report and my GP wrote a letter of support stating my medical condition and how this affects my every day tasks she said something as simple as going on a bus/train is difficult to someone with my medical condition, she listed all my medication and she even put at the bottom of the letter giving the medical evidence it would not be unreasonable for a home visit to be granted to my patient Mrs xxxxx giving the supporting medical evidence. I do not know what the hospital report said but I suspect it confirmed what my GP had written.

I think that both the consultants report and my GPs letter helped a great deal with my claim regarding PIP as I was awarded more than I claimed for plus I got a home visit. I know that I was lucky getting a letter of support from my GP as some GPs charge for these letters or simply refuse to give one.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

A letter arrived today asking if the lad had been in prison / hospital / abroad recently, and if his bank details were the same. That means PIP is on its way, but at what levels?

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Lets hope its good news taf.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Glad you got it sorted Taf and while i know you won't relax totally try just a bit.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

At some point the application pack will arrive for his twin sister. :(

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Well Taf on the plus side you have your boy's file that you can use and show to the relevant parties in the hope that they will be more understanding your daughter's needs. I really hope and pray they will be more understanding and you and your daughter this time around therefore with a bit of luck your family will not need to go through all the past stress again.

One can hope anyway.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Sorry to hear that Taf but i hope things will go easier for you living on benefits these days is anything but a life of leisure not only do you have to endure and adapt as best you can to your medical conditions but living with the constant stress of the assessments takes a mental toll. Can only wish you the best and hope it doesn't get too tough for you meaningless as that is practically.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Agree and now they know you have had a successful appeal I think they'll be keen to give you a fair hearing first time out. You've been through the process now so I think second time around should be easier. :tu:

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Indeed. Too many independent tribunals are coming to the wrong decision as far as this Government is concerned.

As a result they want to scrap personal tribunals (where appellants generally do better) and remove the disability specialist.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

A FB forum is full of people who were already on PIP at the higher levels being dropped to zero points by ATOS-Capita-DWP. Some fully win at tribunal, many don't. It's a lottery loaded against claimants, with rules being changed by the DWP to ensure more failures.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Absolutely 100% spot on Old Boy. However, you risk being lynched here for even expressing such a heinous suggestion. The very mention of benefit controls sends lots of people into a flat spin. Enjoy :D

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

theres plenty of advice how to get a good decision on here

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Have you got proof of this wildly exaggerated statement OB?.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

While there is a small minority that cheat the system the vast majority of claimants are genuine unless you read the usual demonising culprits of our so called media OB.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Anybody who cheats the system should have to face the full wrath of the law IMO.

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Nothing of the sort as we know there is a small minority that cheat the system just like other society systems but don't exaggerate it like you usually do.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The tribunals work to the same rules as ATOS and Capita, but they actually read all the evidence prepared by medical experts.

Unlike ATOS and Capita that make unjust decisions to keep to the DWP plan of cutting benefits for the majority.

ATOS and Capita receive funding to pay for the sourcing medical-expert evidence, but they don't do it, preferring that the claimant pays the bill.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Good grief you are rather pathetic sometimes papa as l thought you being a educated man you would think before offering your wonderful considered advice..

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

wuhh i thought i was being helpful :(

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Not being clever myself in the vast majority of things l think you know exactly what your meaning was as yes crack down hard on those who cheat the system but don't espouse that cheating the system is widespread because it most certainly ain't..

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

For ESA reports it's part of the GPs contract and for PIP they are paid.

From 2013

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Well, Den , I think you will find that the majority of people in work do think that many claims are fraudulent. This is precisely why so many people are concerned about it.

If Channel 4 and others have no difficulty in exposing these people, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that this is not a widespread problem?

I have nothing but contempt for these people, because not only is my money being used to support these people - criminals - but also, they are making untold problems for genuine claimants, who ard looked upon with suspicion.

The government needs to be one step ahead of the criminals and not let the odd mistake shake tbeir resolve.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Facts OB and these are by the DWP.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...es-2016-17.pdf

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Reading things in the media or watching them on TV does not make benefit cheating widespread end off...

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

well it makes one wonder why so many are failing the assessment but of course it's always the wrong decision when you don't get a pay day

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Can't disagree with that sentiment.

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Have you took part in one of these assessments yourself?.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Our GP was not asked to complete these forms for both our twins' ESA claims. Neither was he contacted for my son's PIP claim. I know of no-one who had an ESA113 form completed by their GP.

If a GP did complete ESA113 for any claim, you get a copy if you take it to tribunal.

PIP is not about what is wrong with you, but how it affects your life. This is where many people who previously had DLA fall down when applying for PIP. Even though the questions are basically the same, it's how the assessor/DWP consider their weight in your life.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

i'm looking for good advice i don't want to jump in with both barrels empty

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

We all need good advice in life sometimes.;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

I think the Government don't trust the GPs to give a true opinion. You hear stories of patients insisting on being prescribed anti-biotics, and the GPS just do it because they don't want any unpleasantness.

When trust breaks down between the government and the professionals, they tend to take sledgehammers to crack nuts.

If only people would do their jobs properly! Or maybe I am being old fashioned! (Agreement not required) :erm:

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

This is the tv, Den, and seeing is believing. It's happening. And it's far too easy.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

It would be nice if the Govt. ran a campaign to alert those that should be claiming benefits, but don't. There are far more of these than those cheating the system.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Den, that link is nothing to do with fraudulent claims, it's about miscalculations by the DWP.

Fraud is a big problem in this area, but unfortunately, this has resulted in genuine claimants having to jump through hoops to receive their entitlements.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Fraud is not a big problem at all, fraud and error account for less than 2% of spending

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...-at-record-low

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Fraud and error in the benefit system has dropped to the lowest level ever, falling by £350 million last year.

would it sound better if it was on the side of a bus ;)


benefit fraud stands at £1.3 billion

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

£1.3 billion :shocking:. The thieving barstewards. Think of the cycle lanes that could build.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

TV or the written media a easy way to educate the mind or a easy way to fill the mind with uneducated demonising prejudices formed on just a few examples of a very small minority cheating the system as that does not make us a nation of cheating fiddlers but you know that any way OB.

---------- Post added at 05:16 ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 ----------

The vast majority of professions do their job properly as do the vast majority of Joe Public so again yet more hogwash from you OB as again you are forming a opinion from those old prejudiced sources of yours which is really educating that mind of yours.

---------- Post added at 05:18 ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 ----------

Don't often agree with you Mr K but l do here.

---------- Post added at 05:20 ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 ----------

Another staggering statement as you seem to be excelling at that today OB.

---------- Post added at 05:22 ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 ----------

Facts seem to be the enemy of OB today as he will only use facts when it suits his own prejudices.

---------- Post added at 05:24 ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 ----------

Any fraud must be cracked down hard IMO.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

I personally think it'd be better to use percentages, like fraud accounts for 0.8% of the budget, most other departments or some government's even would be delighted to have that figure, of course if your peddling an agenda it's best to ignore percentages in the hope of painting a false picture with big numbers

---------- Post added at 07:19 ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 ----------

Kinda glad they made of with it now

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

That just relates to those they've caught!!

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

that's just trying to hide the fact that £1.300,000,000 is being stolen by cheats not much to be delighted about unless your on the receiving end .

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

I wonder what percentage of the nhs or the foreign aid budgets are being fraudulently pinched or how much we're overpaying private companies to outsource work to.

I think you are making fraudulent claims to with your figures btw

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

the figure is from your link £1.3 billion in benefit fraud

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...-at-record-low

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

That's not the figure you helpfully typed out for us though is it, I think we might have just seen how easy it is for errors to occur

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

if that's the core of your arguments a typo or misspelling does not account for 1.3 billion pounds of theft, i think what we are seeing here is how willing some are to sweep this under the rug and hide it

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

No the core of my argument is 0.8% of a budget being lost through fraud or error isn't bad, the figure might be large in it's self but compared to how large the budget is and how much vilification claimants endure it's nothing and that figure is only going to go down as it becomes easier to spot the fraudsters to.

And I'm not trying to hide anything, just putting it into context.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The fraud figures are for proven or provable fraud. What is actually going on is a different matter. You only have to look at benefit programmes on TV to see so many that are very able, but are still claiming benefits.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

but the figure is a staggering amount ,this isn't pocket change it's £1.3 billion
putting the fluffy bunny approach to it by saying it's only 0.8% doesn't change the fact that it's in the £billions, if i wrote it on the side of a bus would that spark some interest ;)

just think what the NHS could do with £1.3 billion

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

It's the about the same staggering amount they found for the DUP. All from the 'magic money tree' to keep Theresa temporarily in her job, pocket change obviously.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

labour voter ?

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Indeed and the magic money tree The Conservatives used to find the £1.5 billion for the DUP to keep themselves in power....

---------- Post added at 09:53 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

What if he is a Labour voter so what as he is entitled to vote for whoever he wants too...

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------

The "magic money tree remark" which the Conservatives are quick to throw around unless it suits their own political ends.;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Actually, no.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

libtard? ;)

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

we know how labour voters and benefits are tied at the hip

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Strange that as just taking most our family as a example who have worked all their working lives as quite a few of them would vote for Labour so please give me your extremely wise educated wisdom on that if you may??

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Could be worse, could be an alt-right broflake. ;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

nice - broflake i like it ;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Really? Are you sure? I thought it was going to be spent on stuff in N. Ireland which will be of benefit to all communities. You know stuff like mental health services. Yes of course it's politically motivated but it was a hell of a lot less than Corbyn's £100,000,000,000 bribe to students in an effort to gain power. That's what politicians do isn't it?

==========================

Fraud is common within the benefits system sadly whether it be making entirely false claims for benefits or failing to notify changes of circumstances etc. Inevitably the genuine are then required to jump through additional hurdles to claim and retain what they're fully entitled to. It's all very well some people saying we should, effectively, turn a blind eye to fraud but if we do that the amount of fraud in the system will increase and that is also depriving genuine claimants of much needed resources. At some point we have to try to put a stop to it and yes that will mean perfectly decent, needy, people having to be more thoroughly assessed and go through appeals.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

It was a bribe pure and simple and l am pretty sure if the other parties did it there would be severe gnashing of gritted teeth.;)

All parties bribe whoever they are but opinions differ depending on ones political leanings..:)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

bit like labour bribing voters with better benefits promises

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

My my your educated brain is excelling itself today..;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

yes those night school pottery classes have paid off ;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Just check the finished product as you might find plenty of defects in it.;)

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

what defects ?

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

We're in agreement then and just as with the question of nastiness it comes down to scale. Which side is worst. I've pointed out the reasons for what I think and what John McDonnell said and Corbyn promised isn't my opinion it's a fact... ;)

In the case of benefits we need to spend what money is allocated as wisely as possible, not just allow billions to be wasted when that money ought to be going to the genuine.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to not telling the truth but of course depending on ones individual political leanings the thinking will be rather different.;)

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

Indeed money should be spent wisely whatever department spends it.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The crackdown on the fiddling gits will continue. 1.3 billion handouts is too much for decent, hardworking taxpayers to bear.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 

The "crackdown on fiddling gits" should continue but not at the expense of those in genuine need. Making things harder for genuine claimants is not the way forward.