Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Tescos have been placing adverts for full time positions in their stores.
JSA + expenses.

The Guardian has uncovered other adverts for similar unpaid Tesco roles posted this month in Clevedon and in Dinnington. Britain's largest private employer, which made over £3.5bn in profit last April, said that it had taken on 1,400 such claimants in the last four months. This amounts to 168,000 hours of unpaid work if all participants in the scheme work for 30 hours a week.

That's over 1 million pounds worth of free labour and exploitation.

Right, how do we get Dave out before he authorises lethal injections to the disabled and jobless?
(I don't think he'd use gas. that'll make him look evil. and it's too expensive anyway)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...d-work-schemes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...?newsfeed=true

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

hardly suprising to be honest shoppers and unions put huge pressure on these companies.

See tesco's latest to put now adverts around very stupid in my mind you would think they would keep it under the carpet to speak not advertise the fact they use slave labour.

Those on this forum support wonder how many will be willing on monday to have there wages removed work for JSA equivalent plus expenses. Fat zero.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Disgraceful scheme. People should be helped back in to real jobs, so they are paying taxes and help get us out of this mess we are in, not helping the likes of Tescos with the tax payer paying their wages!

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You were doing so well until then....

I totally agree that businesses should not be using work-experience people as free labour - they should be getting the market rate (I have a different view about work experience on community projects, thought).

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I know you don't really want Dave to inject the poor and helpless.

They and the government say it's work experience for them. if Tescos were to round up say all Muslims and tell them they had to work a full time week for no pay. the government would say no, you can't do that.

but because this is the governments idea, it's ok.

but it's only ok because there's money exchanging hands in the background, and through the exploitation of the poor and helpless.

and it's only ok because most of the public don't really know that it's going on yet.

but soon, all hell is going to break loose. and unfortunately I'm going to be around to witness it :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I touched on this in another thread ,i do think it wrong that companies benefit financially by these schemes and make no mistake that the huge profits they are making is contributed to by having this free labour ,it would be interesting to know hao many of these people Tescos are using

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The OP did say.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

"we are all in this together"
who was it who said that?
this scheme stinks , there's no wonder sainsburys are pulling the plug ,the government has created a slave class

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Dave, the man who says he will do one thing, but do the other when he gets in the door.
Dave, the man who said he would protect certain things and people, and make them suffer when he gets in the door.
Dave, the man who people are now comparing to Hitler.

I'm already taking bets that he will not complete his full term.
and extra bets that it won't be by choice :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

yes but is that a total or just those taken on in the last 4 months

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

What a world we live in, eh?

Seems the businesses and banks can get away with anything these days, with no recompense.

Does make you wonder if the consipiracy theories about banks/oil companies running the world, is perhaps true after all.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Hasn't it just started in the last 4 months anyway, really?

---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------

If you believe in conspiracy theories, then you'd have to believe that Dave is selling us out for a reason.
we just need to stop his plan before it goes too far to reverse it back.
he either becomes very rich from it, or we look after him in a padded cell.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
i can put in a good word if you want in

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

no idea when it started ,i know it has been talked about for the last couple of years

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Quote:
Minister for Employment Chris Grayling said: "Our work experience scheme is voluntary and thanks to companies like Tesco and many others has provided a route for literally thousands of young people to find their first job.

"The idea that providing work experience for unemployed young people is some kind of forced labour is utterly and completely absurd."


minister in denial -it must be true :shocked:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I applaud the protestors :clap: :clap: :clap:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

They are having us believe that it's voluntary. then you have this bit about losing your benefits if you drop out after the first week.

so what happened to this tough stance of making people work for free or having their benefits stopped?

it all depends who's asking, and who they're telling the different story to.

if you are against people on the dole then 'they' will tell you that it's compulsory for these people to work for free.
if you sympathise with the people on the dole then 'they' will tell you this crap about it's all voluntary.

if you are on the dole then 'they' will tell you they are sending you to work at Tescos for free, and that it's compulsory. you have no choice. if you don't attend or drop out at anytime, and/or/if we hear that you are being deliberately uncooperative at the company then your money will be stopped.

Let's see whether Tesco's assess the damage limitation and also pull out of this scam of exploiting the unemployed in order to boost profits.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Even the far right wing Daily Mail thinks it's wrong:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...y-stopped.html

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Matalan have withdrawn from the scheme as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17086526

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Oh well ,if the private firms drop out then maybe the unemployed can help out at the job centers :rolleyes:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

AFAIK, they have to advertise to use the scheme.

as for Tescos feeling the pressure, over the last few years Tescos have repeatedly made record profits. I don't really think they are feeling the pressure.

Unlike the companies they have bankrupted by moving into markets such as CDs, books, electronics etc.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yeh, they can be in charge of the sanction and bonus's department.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Another job where they can take advantage of the unemployed and not have to pay a working wage instead.

if this is allowed to continue, then there will be no need to employ anyone. and if it escalates they can make redundancies.

Broken Britain. with a lot of help from Dave.

Superdrug.
Job No: EAN/29944
SOC Code: 7111
Wage JSA + TRAVEL EXPENSES
Hours 25 HOURS PER WEEK TBA
Location FISHPONDS ROAD BS16
Duration Permanent
Date posted 17 February 2012
Pension details No details held
http://jobcentreplus.jobhits.co.uk/R...T-id-EAN-29944

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

until today i had no idea this was going on .

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

It was all supposed to be between the government and the claimants. nobody else were meant to know what is going on.
not forgetting the participating companies who want to save wage money.

Councils are and will be using them. Royal Mail too.

even if you think it's a good thing that they are being made to work. it can't be a good thing if it means it may be your job they'll be replacing soon.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

where i work [a certain cable company] we are up to our armpits in apprentices -these are real jobs for young people with good training and a descent wage attached.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

what i want to know is how can they advertise the job as permanent if the claiment is supposed to be looking for a job ?.
If the claiment stays at the company on a permanent basis as the advert suggests then surely that is a way for the claimant to stay on jsa claiming full benefits for just 25hrs work .Doesn't seem like much of an incentive to get off benefits and take a full time job most likely at a low wage

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

And that's how it should be. but the way this is going to work is it will mean not having to pay workers a wage at all for doing a job that they'd have to pay someone to do.

eventually meaning that there will be no reason to employ anyone. as long as the government allows it to happen.
we'll be having companies not even on the official list advertising soon.

if you want experience as a dishwasher to put on your CV. here's one.

Job No: NCS/59011
SOC Code: 0
Wage BENEFITS + TRAVELLING EXPENSES
Hours 25-30 HURS OVER 5 DAYS BETWEEN 10AM TO 8PM
Location NEWCASTLE NE1
Duration Permanent
Date posted 17 February 2012
Pension details No details held

---------- Post added at 23:20 ---------- Previous post was at 23:14 ----------

Eh?
Minimum wage is:
£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
= £152
£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
= £124

why would you sooner work 25hrs a week for £50 - £67 instead of the above amounts, just so you don't have to take the same job for the above amounts?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

It seems to me that this is turning into a spectacular coalition own goal. Honestly, if employers are pulling out of 'make claimants work for free' you know you're on to a loser. (Unless, you're called Tesco of course).

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Think about it Gary ,25hrs work most likely easy menial work ,lets say dishwashing or stacking shelves .In return the claimant gets jsa ,full housing benefit ,free prescriptions council tax rebate and any other benefit you can think of so he/she gets the security of a life on benefits and the DWP is off their back about finding work .Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to take 25hrs paid work and lose most of the benefits

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Fair point about the housing benefit and such, but what about this and the other companies getting the free work and saving hundreds if not thousands of pounds in saved wages at the expense of the taxpayer?

not forgetting unpaid taxes.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's what's wrong about the whole scheme .A company like Tesco should employ someone at the going rate if there is a job to be done .If this is being vaunted as a training scheme then the company should offer some form of qualification and a job offer at the end

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

It could be the case that these companies actually pay the persons JSA in the background in exchange for the governments approval of the cheap labour.

but then all hell that breaks loose when all hell breaks loose will be all hell broken loose :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

still cheap labour

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's the point. cheap labour with the governments approval.

which inevitably means no more real jobs, and a loss of real jobs.

I remember saying before that councils would be part of it, and they already are. just have to wait and see what job losses will be covered by people earning JSA + Expenses.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

And then again, it probably isn't the case, and you are making it up.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You sound worried, Hugh.

anyway, this reply from Argos.

They are pleased to take on free labour over their busiest period so they don't have to pay their own staff overtime money, they're saying.

it almost comes across that they are teasing us with the admission that they use them over busy periods. probably because that's how they were sold the idea to get them to participate in the scam. so they think it's ok to do.

actually, they are infact saying that they use it to get free labour so they don't have to pay a wage or overtime. they just don't realise how disgusting it is actually admit it.

Royal Mail will probably say the same around Xmas time.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Not worried at all, Gary - I just like to base my discussion on evidence and reality, not statements like andAnyway, back to reality....

If these schemes are taking the place of permanent jobs, they are wrong - people should be paid the going rate for the job.

If however, these are temporary and are voluntary (where voluntary is where you can drop out in the first week, rather than half-way through and you can't be bothered getting out of bed), and where, in the case of Tesco, one quarter of all the people who took part ended up getting a permanent job, surely this is a good thing.

Regarding the job adverts stating the companies are looking to make these permanent, it has been reported that these are mistakes by the Job Centre IT system if this is not true, I would have expected the Unions in Tesco, etc, to be up in arms about it, and I would support them in this.

People have to realise that work experience is one of the biggest factors in getting a job, as employers are looking for proof that you can get up in the morning and turn up regularly, as well as have the capabilities to do the work - this is difficult to prove if you have been unemployed for some time, or never had a job. However, it has to be a two-way undertaking, where the person doing the work experience gains some skills and knowledge, as well as getting used to the idea of getting up and turning up. When we give people two to four weeks work experience (not as part of this scheme, but as part of a graduate employability skills programme), it actually reduces our productivity for the time as we spend more time on supervision and coaching than we gain in work throughput.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

If this is true then Tesco's and all the others don't even have to pay the claimants expenses either. we do.
so we as tax payers are paying taxes to make these companies save what totals millions of pounds worth of unpaid wages.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Maplin have pulled out the scam.

and police are investigating fraud to do with the scam.

Police visit offices of A4e, whose chair was appointed by David Cameron to help get troubled families into work
Ministers have been urged to suspend welfare-to-work contracts with a company at the centre of allegations of fraud.
Thames Valley police visited the offices of A4e in Slough, Berkshire, over the claims on Friday.
The company said they concerned a "very small" number of former employees whose activities had been referred to police by A4e.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Tesco is to hold crisis talks with employment officials as the row over the supermarket chain’s use of ‘slave labour’ intensifies.

Several high-profile companies have already pulled out of the Government’s under-fire ‘workfare’ scheme and the food retail giant is getting increasingly jittery after one of its stores was forced to close by protesters.

Tesco says it wants the rules changed to make it clear no one would lose their benefits if they do not wish to continue working.

Tesco is also concerned after thousands of angry customers wrote in and posted messages on its Facebook page, accusing the firm of profiting from hundreds of thousands of hours of forced unpaid work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rk-scheme.html

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Hats of to the idea tho, the tories never have liked the min wage and this was a clever way to try and evade it.

Thankfully the media did see sense on this and didnt cover it up.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

Interesting, if we see this happen it will show how government works for business. However it still doesnt change it is slave labour breaching min wage laws.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Err this seems to be aimed at the young so they probably aren't getting housing benefits or council tax rebates as they live with their parents and what sort of work experience is dishwashing unless you're planning a career washing dishes of course...

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

This is what I hoped the scheme would be about can't help but have concerns that it won't be though...

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

err..i believe it's aimed at anybody .
work experience is exactly what it says 'work experience' ,it's not just about gaining skills ,although that is important what is equally as important is learning how to get up in the morning and be on time ,to do what you are told and how to conduct yourself in a work environment ,all valuable lessons for people of any age who have not worked for a long time .All of the above can be learned in any job including dishwashing

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You'd better tell the deputy PM that as he thinks it's aimed more towards the young to, so does the boss of Tesco's and do you really think that the sort of person that can't get up in the morning is going to take part in a voluntary scheme.

Tesco UK's chief executive Richard Brasher said: "We know it is difficult for young people to give up benefits for a short-term placement with no permanent job at the end of it.

"So this guarantee that a job will be available provided the placement is completed satisfactorily, should be a major confidence boost for young people wanting to enter work on a permanent basis."

Mr Clegg added: "It is very simple. We say to employers, 'Please take on these young people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-politics-17116473

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

All i would say about this scheme is this if any company has a vacancy then let that company pay the going rate for the job,ie the rate they pay everybody else lets not dress this up as work expierience when in reality its cheap labour by any other name.

At least sainsburys and other companies that have pulled out recognise that simple fact.:mad:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I still think this is a scheme which leads to exploitation. Free temporary labour for the likes of Tesco. I would prefer it if it were limited to non-profit or governmental work and not for commercial enterprise. Realistically what can be gained but a month stacking shelfs?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I've heard that shops/companies are approaching the jobcentres now asking if they can have some free labour.

it was the jobcentres approaching the shops/companies up until now.

see, everyone thinks Xmas has come early! :)

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Fills the gaps on your CV. employers don't like to see gaps.
(put forced to work as a slave for 4 weeks)

Gives you a moral boost for doing something with yourself.
(as long as you stop remembering that you were forced to do this, and you don't mind the person who gets a full wage telling you to do the hard work. then you should be ok)

Helps keep the tax payers happy.
(that you're the main reason why this country doesn't have to employ anyone anymore, because the government introduced a 'free workers farm' for companies to take a handful from.

Back to the new entry on your CV.
(take it to a company that doesn't use free workers)
(if you can find one that doesn't)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The taxpayers are happy of course until the point they stop been a taxpayer and another person working for their JSA instead.

If tesco dont back down by next week then I will have to carry out my threat to them and use sainsburies next week for my food shopping.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Stop giving work experience, or stop giving a quarter of those who had been on work experience a permanent job?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I simply said stop taking part in DWP schemes which is work placements for JSA.

If tesco want to pay a wage (which would be independent of JSA) for work placements I have no issue with.

Why are these work placements for JSA claimants only and with sanctions for pulling out?

and of course a bigger issue that these schemes could be used on sick claimants in future.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

And 400 people got jobs with Tesco after undertaking the JSA work placements - if they stop those, they don't get to evaluate potential candidates.

btw, very few short-term "work placements" pay wages (including internships / work experiences for Labour MPs and Unions).

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Why do they need to have JSA work placements to evaluate candidates? they could take people on at the going rate for say a three months contract if the candidate was any good keep them on after that no problems.

Why they need taxpayer funded applicants is beyond me.

I shop with tesco and have done for years taking part in these schemes damages their reputation no end at least sainsburys and other companies had the sense to see that.

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

IDS comes out fighting i do not agree with the scheme but he does have a point about jobs snobs though.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-job-snob.html

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I wonder when he stacked shelves in his career?Easy enough to accuse others of snobbery if one hasn't done the job either.It's low paid,low status and pension options are crap.The only people who want to do it are probably working another part time low paid job.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I dont think many will say been a layabout is better than stacking shelves however the fact he came out with that comment means he is out of touch with the real issue.

If tesco have vacancies for trial positions then they should be advertising these to everyone and paying any wage on top of whatever income that person may already have.
The DWP shouldnt be discriminating on age which they do time and time again. It seems been long term unemployed is fine the older you are with more entitlement to housing costs as well as less pushing from the job centre to find work.
If they want to shrug of slave labour labeling the very yeast they need to do is scrap any sanctions for not taking part, tesco have insisted on this themselves so if IDS doesnt back down they will probably pull out I expect, if he does back down my guess is they will stay in.

I agree maggy although its better than nothing his comments are very wrong.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I take your point Maggy,but when i started work in 1976 manual labour such as these jobs was not looked down upon as it is now,east europeans are finding work as our young do not want to do this type myself i would do this work if that was on offer.

Tesco i believe offer a career average pension to all their employees plus a profit sharing scheme so it would be wrong to say the options are crap people on the shop floor can go up if they wish but only if they have a job in the first place.

I have a friend who works in what you might describe as "low paid low status job" for £6.90 an hour but he gets tax credits to make his money up so is better off then on the dole.

The uk youth would be better off and so would anybody else who looks down their nose at these jobs to respect the people doing what is after all a very necessary job.

I have done low paid work in my past and certainly i am no job snob.:)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

They don't - they (and others) only took part in this scheme to support it, because, as I stated earlier in this thread, there is still a lot of admin and support work involved even when someone is on a work placement (if people come to our place on a two week placement, they still have to have an induction, basic H&S training, and on the job training and supervision (which leads to the people doing this being less productive)). However, if at the end of the work placement, there are vacancies, it would be silly not to hire someone whom you had already trained and had shown the capability to do the job).

My son and daughter have stacked shelves in the evenings as summer jobs, and it takes a couple of weeks before any shelf stackers are felt capable of being allowed to do it unsupervised (as doing it wrong really peeves the customers if the stuff isn't in the right place the right way).

Trust me, work placements are not "free labour", not if you have to train and manage them.

There's an opinion piece in today's Times that puts it well, imho Times (behind a paywall)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

He may have a point about Job snobs, but I've been a shelf stacker, and you don't get much training or supervision. In Sainsburys, the training I got consisted of being sat in front of a video for about 40 minutes. The Admin was filling out a couple of forms, and ordering my uniform. In all, I was out on the floor stacking shelves about an hour after starting.

So, I would argue on that point at least, he is talking out of somewhere the sun don't shine.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Ok you might not get much job training but being on the dole is much worse IMO.

So what if an hour after starting people were stacking shelves as the poles have found a job is a job and that can lead upwards a colleague of mines daughter started as a shelf stacker and is now a manager at Tesco.

Job Snobs do my head in.:erm:

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

According to stuart you can stack shelves within an hour of starting at sainburys. !:shocked:

I do not deride these jobs in fact i support them all i ask is that those that do them get the going rate for the job,and not some government work for the benefit programme as this only serves as a subsidy to big buisness.:(

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

They didn't work that way at Asda (maybe because it isn't just shelf stacking, which is only part of the Shop Floor Assistant's job).

But the point is that they are not jobs, they are work experience, which may lead to a job, and will also show potential employers that the applicant has the ability to turn up and do a job.

I (and I assume most employers) would not go out and take people on for 4 to 8 weeks on spec, on full pay, for the possibility that some of them might be employable - ymmv.

Just found a job ad for Work Placement at Asda

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I do not think you and i will agree on this point Hugh but i think if tesco or sainsbury or any other employer has a role to fill they should do what employers did when i started work.

Take a youngster on and if they do not come up to scratch goodbye,no government JSA needed.

Why should my tax money go to subsidisng employment at tesco, sainsburys at least recognise that very point which is why they pulled out.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

But, and here is where we do differ, they don't at the time have a role to fill.

They are taking people on to give them work experience - if, at the end of that time, there are vacancies, they have tried someone out, the person has tried the job, and if they take it, everybody wins.

I think companies are pulling because of the unwarranted bad publicity, myself.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Its no coincidence to me that after christmas tesco announced they had made less profit then expected so though they might not have any "official" roles to fill the stench of them using this as cheap labour remains.

At the taxpayer expense.:(

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

But if they get jobs after the four to eight weeks, they are off the taxpayers expense (no JSA or expenses), and are paying tax.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

interesting article here


http://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/pm...kes-u-turn.htm

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yes i agree perhaps the solution might be for tesco or any other employer to pay back the cost of JSA to the government on retension of the employee.

That way nobody would lose out.

The employer would have a good employee and the government ie taxpayer cost was covered win win.:)

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Very good read Martyh not least the legal status of these "volunteers" as employees.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Sounds good

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Seems like A4e is really getting a lot of flak again. they're being investigated for fraud yet again. I think this is the 6th time now.

as far as I know they paid the money back on a couple of occasions and that was the end of it. but looks like it's still going on.

Did you know Emma Harrison paid herself 8.6 million pounds of tax payers money for what she does?

now they're being investigated for getting the unemployed on their books to sign blank time sheets. I suppose so they can fill in alleged times and make money out of it.

It's all crashing down now. the rich making money from the poor is being looked at, and the poor having a voice the rich didn't hear until now.

Another scam that was and is still going on is where these kind of 'agencies' when they had the unemployed on their books and they finished the course and went back on the dole or whatever. they would call or write to that person and tell them that they have £50 to give them if they have since found a job after finishing the course. just need to come in and sign for it and you'll get it off the receptionist.

that was I assume so that they can put it down that they found you that job and get a big fat bonus from tax payers money for doing absolutely nothing.

disgusting.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1n4aNu1fj

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

by the way the noises coming from tesco now are somewhat more respectable. I think tesco got duped by the DWP and have realised that. What we need now aside from the changes already announced by tesco is for the government to back down on the sanctions.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 ----------

just read that story, its the daily mail so I wont assume its 100% true, but this is an example IF true what happens when profit is mixed in with welfare.

I suspect also that a4e company may have been hoping all claimants are lazy and dont care about actually finding work so noone would grass them up.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ther_multiline

:tu:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I could agree with that mostly and i disagree with the scheme, but i am guessing if the guardian journalist that wrote that piece had gone into their local supermarket and the shelves had of been empty they would see the job of stock replenishment as anything but pointless.:erm:

We really need to get away from describing some peoples jobs as menial and pointless.

However as i have said if there is a job to be done let the supermarkets pay the going rate.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

agreed no jobs pointless all jobs and workers do a duty as a team to a goal. Problem is business bosses have forgot this simple notion. So they rake in the money kick the bigies out of lower staff dont pay there worth.

Bosses goto remember without stackers there no goods to purchase no profits to add.

A stacker who works nights deserves a pay which reflects such. Thus increase wages other staff to reflect there importance to the operation of the company. Fair wage scale for once in there lives.

I agree these schemes are wrong although would be more respected towards them alittle if Tesco or anyother company paid up. My proposal this to take it you keep all benefits all help you get. As reward for this say tesco pays £60 to you as wage plus transport costs. That goes in the claments pocket no taking off them to reduce benefits paid.

Gives these claiments bit pocket money makes them proud not feel like cheap slave labour.

If the above was done then I would be less against it crickey even YTS Scheme gave the youth something for taking it. Even though I thought it was cheap labour it was worth it for the little money you got ontop benefits.

They want the labour then companies pay up.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17150593

Its seems more and more businesses are getting itchy feets over the government's work experience scheme for jobless people.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Poundland is also dropping out of the scheme.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-7440154.html

I had a mate who's on JSA and 'had' to work there for his benefits, he told me there were so many people there doing the same thing that were more people on the shop floor than customers. No one had a clue to what they were supposed to do and was just standing around doing nothing. Yeah that's some 'excellent' opportunity isn't it.

They said it's voluntary, yet he had no choice, they need to make up their minds and come clean on the facts.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yeah for all the stick they gave labour about spin, saying its voluntary its spin on a large scale as they have said it repeatedly now. This on top of all the lies spilled out over fraud figures etc.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I honestly can't understand what all the fuss is about now, I became employed in both youth & adult training in 1995 the same or extremely similar schemes existed even then.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Because if people repeat the phrases "slave labour" and "not voluntary" often enough, they hope the mud will stick.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yeah right. Big businesses are pulling out of the scheme, and the minister blames the Socialist Workers' Party.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Grayling is an idiot. he also claimed that they hacked his email. only they didn't. and he withdrew the allegation.

They just don't like it because they're not getting their own way.
power to the people! :)

Oh, and he also lied about nobody pulling out of the scam.
he really thinks nobody knows what's going on.

and, and..

The man's deluded. it's very large and getting bigger and bigger.
3rd March is the day he needs to watch out for :)


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...49.html?ref=uk

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

If it was voluntary then there would be no need to stop peoples benefits if they don't attend.
if it was voluntary then there wouldn't be the terms "you must" and "compulsory" numerous times in the literature.

ymmv and imho.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

With rights, come responsibilities - they can say no to the scheme, they can drop out in the first week, but if they drop out afterwards (and the whole point is to get people used to the idea of working and turning up on time), if there are no sanctions, what do we use to motivate those who would rather stay in bed?

btw, the "compulsory" is about another scheme, not this one - conflating the two to support your point is a little naughty, don't you think? (unless, of course, you can show us links to documentation that supports your premise about this scheme).

IDS

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The Prime Minister's former "family champion" Emma Harrison has announced that she is stepping down as the chairman of her welfare-to-work firm A4e.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...medium=twitter

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

So it's not voluntary then.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

It's voluntary to go on to, and for the first week - which part of that do you find difficult to understand.

If they can't be ersed getting out of bed after that, sanctions are imposed.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

She did the right thing in the circumstances.

now can we have our money back, love? :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

so what if they are compulsory ,there's a lot of things in life that are both unpopular and compulsory but we have to do them .There are a lot of compulsory conditions attached to claiming benefits such as looking for work ,not working whilst claiming and signing on .All very inconvenient i know but they must be done in order to get the benefit ,so what if doing a little work experience is one of those conditions .

It's jeremy Kyle i feel sorry for ,he's going to run out of candidates for his show with all this work experience floating around

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's just it. all that may be the case now because the secret is out. but before now it was seen as mandatory to all who were referred to the thing.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I would give it up Hugh ,some people on this forum are determined to believe what the see in the banner of a red top despite documentation to the contrary

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

Absolute rubbish Gary .It has never been compulsory as has been proven to you in other threads on this subject ,it is not some massive conspiracy ,try doing a bit of research and find out some facts

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Don't patronise him Marty. not this early on in the thread anyway :)

---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

I have and know the facts Marty.
all that is happening now is you have a different opinion, and different knowledge to mine.

which is quite normal.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

In the Guidance for DWP advisers, it used to sayBut surprise surprise, it has since been changed. :)

Before

After

I've heard that Googles cache is now showing the updated/altered/cover up one now. but if you save it to Google docs you'll see the original one with that paragraph in.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

This is interesting piece about it

http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2012...-bagging-area/

Personally I think government running scared there fabled idea hogwash.

If they want truly system where it creates opening then why not make it totally voluntary system where people can drop out whenever. I dont buy the notion of lazy either or snobery. Most people want to work get wage yes maybe few got in rut. However give them carrot they would bite it. That means reward either guaranted job not an interview rubbish a JOB. If not then monetary incentive ie JSA+money from workplacement.

Why cant companies PAY for its workforce its training staff it crime now society wants a paypacket for its services. However little they pay at least they pay something. Surely even if they Just GET £10-£15 its better sweet FA.

It would take away stigma of cheap labour to degree. This actually worse than YTS Scheme at least poor saps got expenses and £10 quid in its pocket. Believe me when on £25 it was like nice bonus.

I am actually shocked at the snobery that persists with those who think training should come free to company who has 100bn turnover.

Someone made a point on forum surely forced labour from jobcentre violates there contract of looking for work. Anybody been there will tell you you have to sign to say you will look for work via action plan. Anybody will tell you looking for work is quite a task done properly.

I can imagine someone doing backbreaking work stacking shelves 7 nights shifts hardly going to be in great shape for interview. Believe you me 24 cans of beans aint light work. What about health & safety as these technically not employers what rights do they have.

Therefore its crazy counter productive. The only winners are Tesco's etc who get cheap labour. Fact night work pays more than dayshift work we see real reason for this scheme. Ok few will be given jobs they where in the 1980's YTS its to pacify there not cheating the system. There was many YTS who worked hard got glowing refrences but dumped as there was not any oportunities same with this scheme.

No doubt the pathetic awards will be given to say you can do this job that but useless junk not worth there paper as they become not reconised within the industry. Once the markets pick up bet those who done this will be forgoten and there efforts ignored.

Yes there does need to be system but much better way creating work and oportunities and skilled labour.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

How are people getting sanctioned when its voluntary?

even the daily mail has got stuck in and they are usually anti welfare.

It doesnt hurt to criticise things now and again when they get things wrong.

This government has lost track of the real priorities they seem to think for some reason its more important just to get the long term unemployed into work and the rest is of little importance, as these placements would not have been advertised in general job papers.

As for the socialist party, thats just that fool trying to make people think its a socialist attitude and get it unfashionable. I first used the term slave labour on here in maggys thread and I hadnt seen it used anywhere else at the time, it just came to my head.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

So if you decide you don't want to do a job anyone else in this country would be paid minimum wage at least then its fair "sanctions are imposed"?

I think the scheme is great but pay everyone on it the minimum wage that the law says they're entitled to. Unless the unemployed are not protected by the same rights as anyone else?

An as for your comment that these are not jobs I disagree, You arrive at the same time as a fulltime employee, you go for a break the same time, you go for lunch the same time, you finish the same time, you do exactly the same work, These are jobs in all but WAGE!

There is no defense for not paying minimum wage, refusal to work once offered minimum wage should incur sanctions.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I guess hugh means its voluntary as long as you dont mind losing some or all of your benefit ;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Just like if you don't turn up to sign on for good reasons, you lose some of your benefits - why should this be any different?

Out of the 34000 who have been through this Work Experience scheme, less than 200 have had any form of sanctions imposed.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Where did you read that?

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

The point being that 'yes' it may be common knowledge now that it's voluntary for the first week. but it's been shown and proven that claimants were not told that it's voluntary for the first week. they can pull out with no risk of losing their benefits.

up until now.

http://www.consent.me.uk/workexperience/

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

No Gary what it higlites is the benefit claimants responsibility to the people who provide those benefits i.e the tax payer .

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I read it on the BBC website And this was on the Guardian website It would appear the sanction is the same as if they didn't turn up to sign on.

Just linked through your link, Gary, and the first documents (the version 1) states in the guidance (in the Work Experience Documents zip file, Work Experience Guidance for Advisors document)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That just means people have not read it through properly or listened to what they are being told probably because they are so outraged that they have to actually do something in return for free money

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yeh, but you're just being biased though with your opinion.