Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Don't forget that pointing out such facts automatically makes you a Tory-lover.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

One thing people forget is a large part of the debt was taken on during the bank crisis nationalising RBS and Lloyds. We'll get quite a bit of that money back when we sell them off, it would be considered as an asset on the books surely...

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Oh the joy I get to be pretentious and use latin,Thank you Chris for the Ad hominem go at me and thank you for blanketing all my posts on these subjects as moaning. As I have posted countless times I am posting in support of the poor and weak. My views are just as valid as yours are I believe. But I do find it ironic that you seem to moan about me moaning funny that :)

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

The video somewhat snootily suggests "you won't hear this reported in the Telegraph", which is nonsense ... There has been plenty of commentary in that paper, and AFAIK in others, which has stated quite plainly that the cuts scheduled to occur between 2010 and 2015 are barely going to scratch the surface and that whoever is in power after 2015 is going to have to do a lot more.

There is nothing new in this video, except perhaps its entertaining misuse of averages (the way it misuses average life spans to discredit the pensions system is particularly amusing).

Nevertheless, any of you who think the video is designed to carry a Tory-hating message really haven't listened to it properly. Its warning is that the country has been living beyond its means almost since the day the welfare state was set up and most certainly for the last 30 years. Which means that pretty much everything the Labour Party stands for is unaffordable and has got to go, if you take everything the video says at face value. Or did you all miss the bit where it warned about the possible need to "privatise" the NHS? (whatever that means).

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Do you mean this?

http://www.debtbombshell.com/britains-budget-deficit.htm

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

No Chris is not a Tory lover but he agrees with how the cuts have been implemented. I know supported the Tories in the past but he has turned quite partial to some of UKIPs polices

See I at least try to keep up ;)

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Russ has a point btw. 2014? Something pretty bloody drastic is going to have to happen in the next few months.

Also one of their main measurements is % of debt compared to GDP. Which, a year and a half ago, would paint quite a different picture. Doesn't help to do that during a recession when it would be quite a bit different. Even the deficit could drastically change when we start seeing some proper growth. Debts and deficits aren't going to go down without it.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Its a bit more involved than that but the book value is, IIRC, what the asset is currently valued at, not what we paid for it. At the moment, I think those shares are worth quite a lot less than we paid for them.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

We've got more debt than Greece which scares the brown stuff out of me.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

I have definitely moved to the right over the past 5 years and I find common cause with UKIP on a range of issues besides the EU. I'm yet to be convinced that a vote for UKIP is going to be productive at a general election, although as I live in a fairly safe Labour seat, for me it probably is the best course of action as it will add to their national tally, which to a certain extent is still a useful statistic.

As for how the cuts have been implemented, yes, by and large I agree with the way it has been done. State spending has to encourage useful economic activity, not become a substitute for it, and welfare for those who are capable of work must be sufficient therefore to cover the gaps between jobs. Systems that determine who is entitled to what can always be improved, but the basic operating principles are sound.

Nevertheless, after 2015 the axe really will fall. I am curious to hear where the good denizens of Cable Forum think it should fall first. And where it should fall thereafter.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

I agree things need to change I just think the cuts that have been made are more about appeasing the middle and upper classes instead of actually making a difference to how much money is lost.

14 quid here and 14 quid there with a large proportion of this lost in coasts is not going to make much of a difference

Moving 1 person off ESA onto JSA will save £50 per person yet the way its all been implemented means a good portion of this is lost to appeals costs

75 billion 1 tenth of our whole debt every year is spent out of the welfare budget on the State pension. This is the figure that is to blame for the state of the economy. This figure should never have had to be paid by the tax payer. The NI was spent by Labour or the Tories whoever but having to pay 1 tenth of the countries debt every year to the old will continue to cripple us. Even if JSA and ESA was stopped tomorrow it would only drop spending by 9 billion a year 2 billion less than is given away. Yet the same people here saying we support hitting the poor ar ethe same ones saying its ok to give away 11 billion in aid. It beggars belief

---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------


Means test the state pension

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Yeah it would certainly be the book value, which is why I said most, since we would have also chucked a load away writing off bad debts we'll never get back. Still my point is the measurements they're using are the most negative you can find. Selling off the banks and seeing growth would paint a much better picture.

They say we're the odd one out when all the other countries with similar finances have collapsed but that's because the underlying fundamentals were healthier in the UK. This isn't just spin, it's the reason borrowing costs are so low for the Government. The simple stats don't show the whole story.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

Why should the state pension be means tested as people have worked bloody hard all their lives and should not have to face being means tested.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

We have our own currency, and therefore full control over our monetary policy, which Greece does not.

The video played fast and loose with its explanation of government bonds (a.k.a. "Gilts"), referring to their "interest rates", which implies they are loans in the sense we understand them domestically, which they are not. It also chose to contrast the eye-watering gilt yields of the early 1980s, which are pretty much a worst case scenario in our modern history, with the yields of today, as if that were enough to prove things are about to get worse.

The fact is, lenders know the state of the British economy and the gilt yields the British government is able to secure are a reflection of the perceived soundness of the economy and the way it is being managed. Those yields are not going to spike a la Greece as a result of any of the data in that Moneyweek video, precisely because all the information in that video is already a matter of public record and is taken into account when lenders bid for government bonds.

Re: UK to be bankrupt by 2014
 

The axe will have to fall on pensions. Benefit cuts save a pittance whilst I don't see it being possible to cut the NHS.