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mertle 21-03-2012 10:51

The Budget, March 2012
 
May as well start this thread.

Key anouncements will be made

1. We will see7% stamp duty on property worth more than 2m. To be honest dont understand why the threshold way too high. Surely to push it more into the common top earners would be much better so anything above 1m property. Like most policies sting in the tail is there so few 2m mansions. Who says its 2m the estate agents so as these people owning them got few bob they will sell for 1.9m then buy bungs 2m gift to the seller bobs your uncle circumvent the stamp duty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17455711

2 other nuggets is 50% tax to reduce to 45% delayed for one year. To me this disgrace there absolte no Guarantee tax avoidence or tax avation will curtail even worse no guarantee it will be invested to create jobs. Better to collect what you can than rather see if it makes jot. The rich who do this still got the weazil accountants beavering to find the next loophole they wont say hey lets be honest cough up now they hurting us less by 5%. Time will see if this move is another osbourne poor decision.

The other is raising the threshold bottom end to £9,000 before you get taxed. Not sure it will it be enough to ofset loss tax credit so still be worse off but step in right direction. Problem is where the money coming from aint we supposed to be broke why we leasing roads privatisation NHS. You can tell we getting to air they might go for early election by giving out sweaties early. I bet they feel confident to shackle the infested flys called lib/dem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17450719

Ramrod 21-03-2012 11:59

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Personally, I think that taxing different people different amounts is unfair. Fair would be to tax everyone the same (% of income) :shrug:

mertle 21-03-2012 12:30

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35403265)
Personally, I think that taxing different people different amounts is unfair. Fair would be to tax everyone the same (% of income) :shrug:

The way to look at is wage persentage increase its been shown its very unfair system as 2% wage increase at the bottom and the top is too unfair. It can often mean bottom gets £5 top gets £500. If they want unfair wage rise then they should accept unfair tax system.

Equally tax on straight edge would be equally unfair too as it would impack more at the bottom rather the top.

There no easy answer to it. I think wage increase should be fixed X amount say example everyone gets as example £20. Now the wealth distrubution stays constant £20 worth more to bottom than the top but its fair system. However its more difficult to do this to taxation.

Personally the government needs to tax the root making it less easier for those top stop taking there funds creating ways to stash it to avoid the tax.

The duty is another way creating more loops hodebodge the tax system even further more simplistic system needed. If Mr X gets money from X business its taxed. If he gets percentage in shares its taxed if its a bonus its taxed. They could find it hard to try avoid the taxation if its at the root of funds taken from his company.

Now how do represent fairness to system. Well would say 12,000 no tax that goes with all of us. from then escelates in scale to that range More ranges of escelation then system much fairer less likely to feel being ripped off. There nothing fundalmetaly wrong with top bracket if the escelator more fairer. Less to worry about dont think margin biggie someone who earned lets say 200k hardly going panick 40 or 50 if the escelator right.

More stages to the taxation brackets new top end.

Just example no all income would be worked such someene earned 200k his first 12k of that no charge. 12-15 5% would take upto 27k that earnings. Fairer system to have more scales to the tax..

12.000 no tax
15,000 5%
20,000 10%
25,000 15%
30,000 20%
35,000 25%
40,000 30%
50,000 35%
100,000 40%
150,000 45%
200,000 50%

Damien 21-03-2012 12:54

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35403265)
Personally, I think that taxing different people different amounts is unfair. Fair would be to tax everyone the same (% of income) :shrug:

In that circumstance however it can make a large difference. 20% of £15,000 would hurt someone on that wage a lot more than 20% on £200,000. It would also take a lot of money out of the budget.

mertle 21-03-2012 13:09

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35403293)
In that circumstance however it can make a large difference. 20% of £15,000 would hurt someone on that wage a lot more than 20% on £200,000. It would also take a lot of money out of the budget.

indeed my idea work in progress but we got try find medium ground. Theres always winners losers to any system I accept.

Do think Damiens idea would be very bad.

Damien 21-03-2012 13:11

Re: Todays Budget
 
My ideas are never bad! Well, apart from that one time......

mertle 21-03-2012 13:20

Re: Todays Budget
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35403303)
My ideas are never bad! Well, apart from that one time......

dont worry we all brainstorming mine might be just bad too.

any some key budget stuff

UK ECONOMY

Independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) revises up UK growth forecast for 2012 to 0.8% - from 0.7%.
Forecast for 2013 is 2%, for 2014 is 2.7%, and in the two years after that 3%.


BORROWING

Borrowing this year to be £126bn - £1bn less than forecast in the autumn. Forecast to fall to £21bn by 2016-17.


INCOME TAX

Age-related allowances for pensioners to be simplified over time, starting in April 2013, creating a single personal allowance for all but ensuring no pensioner loses in cash terms.


HOUSING

Extra funding to help construction firms building new homes.


HELP FOR BUSINESS

Enhanced capital allowances for businesses setting up in new Scottish enterprise zones in Dundee, Irvine and Nigg. A Welsh enterprise zone to be created in Deeside.
Simplified tax system for small firms with a turnover of up to £77,000.
Government support for £150m of tax increment financing to help councils promote development and an extra £270m for the Growing Places fund.
Tax relief for the video games, animation and high-end television production sectors.


PUBLIC SECTOR

Government evidence to be published on the case for regional public sector pay. Option for government departments to move to regional pay structures for civil servants when current freeze ends.





ENERGY

"Major package of tax changes" to boost oil and gas extraction in North Sea, along with £3bn new field allowance west of Shetland.
JOBS AND SKILLS

OBR forecasts unemployment to peak this year at 8.7% before falling each year to 6.3% by 2016-17.
One million more jobs to be created in the economy over five years, OBR says.
CHILD BENEFIT

FUEL, CIGARETTE AND ALCOHOL DUTIES

PENSIONS

Automatic review of state pension age to ensure it keeps pace with increasing lifespans.
TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE

Extend electrification of the Transpennine route between Manchester and Sheffield. Further improvements to the lines between Manchester and Preston, and Manchester and Blackpool.
Funding for superfast broadband and wi-fi in the UK's 10 largest cities.
GREEN MEASURES

OTHER TAXES AND ALLOWANCES

ARMED FORCES

Family welfare grant and council tax relief for armed forces doubled.
Extra £100m to improve military accommodation - funded by £2.4bn savings from ending combat operations in Afghanistan.


So far this it. surely not putting pension age up again not good idea. surely we all age differently those clearly cant work should be allowed pension. those can work decide if they want to carry on.

Ramrod 21-03-2012 13:24

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35403293)
In that circumstance however it can make a large difference. 20% of £15,000 would hurt someone on that wage a lot more than 20% on £200,000. It would also take a lot of money out of the budget.

Might not take money out of the budget. A flat rate of say 10% across the board would probably decrease tax dodging, encourage wealth creation and hence increase spending (and profits), stimulate overseas investment (due to the low tax rate) and create jobs (which would then be taxed.
.................or we can simply continue to disincentivize the creation of wealth & jobs in this country :shrug:
As for 20% of £15k being more painful that 20% of £200k, thats true but it's still fair. What's not fair is taxing someone who earns more, more. They pay more tax simply by dint of earning more, it's not fair to then also put them on a higher tax rate. It leads to a disincentive to make more money/grow your business. It also stops people feeling like we are all in this together when some of us have to pay proportionally more tax.....

Caff 21-03-2012 13:31

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35403265)
Personally, I think that taxing different people different amounts is unfair. Fair would be to tax everyone the same (% of income) :shrug:

With you there Rammy: if you've earned it you should be allowed to keep it.

martyh 21-03-2012 13:32

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35403308)
Might not take money out of the budget. A flat rate of say 10% across the board would probably decrease tax dodging, encourage wealth creation and hence increase spending (and profits), stimulate overseas investment (due to the low tax rate) and create jobs (which would then be taxed.
.................or we can simply continue to disincentivize the creation of wealth & jobs in this country :shrug:
As for "0% of £15k being more painful that 20% of £200k, thats true but it's still fair. What's not fair is taxing someone who earns more, more. They pay more tax simply by dint of earning more, it's not fair to then also put them on a higher tax rate. It leads to a disincentive to make more money/grow your business. It also stops people feeling like we are all in this together when some of us have to pay proportionally more tax.....

I must admit that if i landed a job that paid 200k and i had to hand over 100k in tax i would wonder why bother .It certainly isn't the best way to encourage people to rise to the top

mertle 21-03-2012 13:36

Re: Todays Budget
 
New update ***


UK ECONOMY

Independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) revises up UK growth forecast for 2012 to 0.8% - from 0.7%.
Forecast for 2013 is 2%, for 2014 is 2.7%, and in the two years after that 3%.
BORROWING

Borrowing this year to be £126bn - £1bn less than forecast in the autumn. Forecast to fall to £21bn by 2016-17.
INCOME TAX

From April 2013, the 50p top rate of tax will be cut to 45p.
New general anti-tax avoidance rule to be introduced.
Age-related allowances for pensioners to be simplified over time, starting in April 2013, creating a single personal allowance for all but ensuring no pensioner loses in cash terms.
HOUSING

From midnight, new stamp duty level of 7% for homes worth more than £2m. Any such homes bought through companies will pay 15%.
Extra funding to help construction firms building new homes.
HELP FOR BUSINESS

Corporation tax cut to 24% from next month. By 2014 it will fall to 22%.
Enhanced capital allowances for businesses setting up in new Scottish enterprise zones in Dundee, Irvine and Nigg. A Welsh enterprise zone to be created in Deeside.
Simplified tax system for small firms with a turnover of up to £77,000.
Government support for £150m of tax increment financing to help councils promote development and an extra £270m for the Growing Places fund.
Tax relief for the video games, animation and high-end television production sectors.
Government considering enterprise loans for young people to start their own business.
PUBLIC SECTOR

Government evidence to be published on the case for regional public sector pay. Option for government departments to move to regional pay structures for civil servants when current freeze ends.
ENERGY

"Major package of tax changes" to boost oil and gas extraction in North Sea, along with £3bn new field allowance west of Shetland.
JOBS AND SKILLS

OBR forecasts unemployment to peak this year at 8.7% before falling each year to 6.3% by 2016-17.
One million more jobs to be created in the economy over five years, OBR says.
CHILD BENEFIT

FUEL, CIGARETTE AND ALCOHOL DUTIES

Duty on all tobacco products to rise by 5% above inflation from 18:00 today - the equivalent of 37p on a packet of cigarettes.
No change to alcohol duty.
New duty on gaming machines at a standard rate of 20% and a lower rate for low-prize machines of 5% of net takings.
No change to existing plans on fuel duty. Vehicle excise duty to rise by inflation, but frozen for road hauliers.
PENSIONS

Automatic review of state pension age to ensure it keeps pace with increasing lifespans.
New single-tier state pension for future pensioners to be set at about £140 and based on contributions.
TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE

Extend electrification of the Transpennine route between Manchester and Sheffield. Further improvements to the lines between Manchester and Preston, and Manchester and Blackpool.
Funding for superfast broadband and wi-fi in the UK's 10 largest cities.
GREEN MEASURES

OTHER TAXES AND ALLOWANCES

Bank levy to be increased to 0.105% from January 2013 "to ensure that corporation tax cuts do not benefit the banks". The levy will raise £2.5bn a year.
New cap on tax reliefs set at 25% of total income for anyone claiming more than £50,000 in a year, but no significant change to pensions relief.
ARMED FORCES

Family welfare grant and council tax relief for armed forces doubled.
Extra £100m to improve military accommodation - funded by £2.4bn savings from ending combat operations in Afghanistan.


--------------------------



So 45% next year instead overhauling the system. in vain hope they wont tax avoid what happens if they do the same. Its less funds in to the coffers.


At least nothing bad for motorists but those who smoke got it bad 5% increase my mum will be pleased.


Very optermistic on borrowing no way he get down to that in month sundays.


I already seen big loophole in that mansion tax Bet bottom dollar they all going be suddenly £1,999,000 from midnight. Then the sell gets a gift to the value if his price before tonight.

Hom3r 21-03-2012 13:40

Re: Todays Budget
 
Motorist still shafted

Taf 21-03-2012 13:43

Re: Todays Budget
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35403316)
Motorist still shafted

..and smokers of course :(

Damien 21-03-2012 13:53

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35403308)
Might not take money out of the budget. A flat rate of say 10% across the board would probably decrease tax dodging, encourage wealth creation and hence increase spending (and profits), stimulate overseas investment (due to the low tax rate) and create jobs (which would then be taxed.
.................or we can simply continue to disincentivize the creation of wealth & jobs in this country :shrug:

I don't think it's disincentivizing. If people would really lose motivation to earn more simply because more would be taken proportionally then they need to examine their priorities. They would still get more money, it's not as it the moment you cross the threshold the new tax rate applies to your entire income.

Even so, that's not the intention behind taxing wealthy people more. You need taxes to operate the society and all the benefits that come with it, and they are the best placed to provide it. Companies employ people who are educated by the state, protected by the state, and looked after by the state and there is a cost involved in that. If any of us suddenly found ourselves unable to work due to heath reasons then in comes the state to look after you, if you find yourself out of work, there is the state.

Taxes are the price we pay and people can go to countries like the US where you pay less tax, pay for health insurance, and as long as you don't lose your job and the health insurance company doesn't screw you over then you don't have to worry if that heart operation you need will bankrupt you family or not. There is a cost involved in not paying as much tax as well.

The government is lowering corporation tax, fair enough, more people employed means more income tax. However I think income tax should largely remain the same. Tax breaks should be given to use who have the most need.

Chris 21-03-2012 14:02

Re: Todays BUDGET
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35403312)
I must admit that if i landed a job that paid 200k and i had to hand over 100k in tax i would wonder why bother .It certainly isn't the best way to encourage people to rise to the top

But that's not how it works. The 50% rate kicks in at £150,000 and affects all your earnings over £150,000. All your earnings below that continue to be taxed at 20% for the first £40,000 of taxable income and 40% for everything between £40,000 and £150,000.

I'm not sure I buy the rather self-serving argument that the higher tax rate disincentivises people from growing their business. People who make £200,000 a year are already generally highly capable and ambitious people who invest and grow their businesses because they can. They don't sit around refusing to do it because the chancellor has taken a few extra quid from their pay.

There does of course come a point where high tax rates become counter productive, but those rates are way, way higher than they are now and they result in emigration of the most mobile and affluent to lower tax regimes elsewhere in the world.


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