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-   -   [Updated]Abu Qatada finally deported to Jordan (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33684711)

denphone 17-01-2012 10:50

[Updated]Abu Qatada finally deported to Jordan
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16590662

Quote:

Radical cleric Abu Qatada has won his appeal against deportation to Jordan.

The European Court of Human Rights said that the preacher could not be removed from the UK because of Jordan's record on torture.

The Strasbourg judges accepted that the UK's deal with Jordan over treatment of deported suspects was sound.

Abu Qatada has fought for six years against deportation, saying he faced trial based on evidence extracted by torture.

The British government can make a final attempt to appeal the judgement before it becomes binding in three months' time.

Osem 17-01-2012 10:57

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Another troublemaker have to put up with and support forever then. :mad: Evidently the risk he poses to us all is outweighed by the risk that he might suffer if he were deported... :rolleyes:

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 11:03

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
The Council of Europe need to replace the European Convention on Human Rights with a new human rights document fit for purpose for the 21st century!

ceedee 17-01-2012 14:43

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35363811)
The Council of Europe need to replace the European Convention on Human Rights with a new human rights document fit for purpose for the 21st century!

What kind of human rights declaration do you imagine would sanction 'exporting' suspects to countries widely recognised for systematic torture?

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 14:55

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 35363962)
What kind of human rights declaration do you imagine would sanction 'exporting' suspects to countries widely recognised for systematic torture?

If they have commited crimes in other countries (with the exception of democracy, human rights activists and perscuted people) why should we keep them here, Britain should not be a haven for rouges!

Gary L 17-01-2012 15:10

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
We need someone like James Bond who can bump him off, no questions asked.

ceedee 17-01-2012 15:41

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35363974)
If they have commited crimes in other countries (with the exception of democracy, human rights activists and perscuted people) why should we keep them here, Britain should not be a haven for rouges

You'd trust the verdicts of a legal system (based largely on Sharia) in a dodgy monarchy acknowledged by the US State Dept as a conducting systematic torture?

How about the cases of Abdel Hakim Belhadj and Sami al-Saadi who were rendered to Gaddafi's Libya along with their families?

Good thing the Chinese government haven't tried the Dali Lama in absentia...

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35363972)
And therin lies the rub: The sort of people who are likely to be terrorrists usually come from the countries that use sharier law and their terrorist ways automatically mean a death penalty under that same law or a long term of improsonment in unpleasant surroundings.

Now personally I would be quite happy to see these people sent back to their own countries to be judged by their own courts and subsequently doled out the penalties that they richly deserved even if that means that they forfiet their lives.

Now unfortunatly we're signed up to a convention that our courts have so twisted that it is a laughing stock with most people but allows the handwringers to sleep easy in their beds even while the rest of us are in fear of our lives.

That you'd be happy to send people to face what we would regard as unfair and unjust trials before execution says volumes for your concept of human rights.

If Qatada was a real ("fear of our lives") threat to the UK, don't you think he'd have been prosecuted here already?

danielf 17-01-2012 15:43

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35363972)

Now unfortunatly we're signed up to a convention that our courts have so twisted that it is a laughing stock with most people but allows the handwringers to sleep easy in their beds even while the rest of us are in fear of our lives.

I'm no hand wringer, but I can honestly say that I'm not in fear of my life.

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 15:45

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 35364038)
You'd trust the verdicts of a legal system (based largely on Sharia) in a dodgy monarchy acknowledged by the US State Dept as a conducting systematic torture?

How about the cases of Abdel Hakim Belhadj and Sami al-Saadi who were rendered to Gaddafi's Libya along with their families?

Good thing the Chinese government haven't tried the Dali Lama in absentia...

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------


That you'd be happy to send people to face what we would regard as unfair and unjust trials before execution says volumes for your concept of human rights.

If Qatada was a real ("fear of our lives") threat to the UK, don't you think he'd have been prosecuted here already?

Jordan is not as bad as Libya, Iran or Saudi Arabia, but your right it is still not good

Anyway he is not just wanted in Jordan, but in United States, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Algeria

ceedee 17-01-2012 16:06

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35364048)
Jordan is not as bad as Libya, Iran or Saudi Arabia, but your right it is still not good

"Not good" doesn't even begin to describe Jordanian 'justice'...
"The Court found that torture was widespread in Jordan, as was the use of torture evidence by the Jordanian courts.

The Court also found that, in relation to each of the two terrorist conspiracies charged against Mr Othman, the evidence of his involvement had been obtained by torturing one of his co-defendants.

"When those two co-defendants stood trial, the Jordanian courts had not taken any action in relation to their complaints of torture."

Strasbourg said that it was highly probable that the "decisive" evidence against the preacher had come from abusing these defendants.

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".

(Source: BBC News)
Quote:

Anyway he is not just wanted in Jordan, but in United States, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Algeria
Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 16:09

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 35364072)
"Not good" doesn't even begin to describe Jordanian 'justice'...
"The Court found that torture was widespread in Jordan, as was the use of torture evidence by the Jordanian courts.

The Court also found that, in relation to each of the two terrorist conspiracies charged against Mr Othman, the evidence of his involvement had been obtained by torturing one of his co-defendants.

"When those two co-defendants stood trial, the Jordanian courts had not taken any action in relation to their complaints of torture."

Strasbourg said that it was highly probable that the "decisive" evidence against the preacher had come from abusing these defendants.

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".

(Source: BBC News)

Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?

But he come is not a human rights, democracy activist or a refugee, so he has no reason not to be deported!

danielf 17-01-2012 16:12

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 35364072)
<snip>

Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?

Has there been an extradition request from any of those countries?

ceedee 17-01-2012 16:34

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35364065)
But you see these terrorists WANT this kind of laws and courts to be all over the world. Why shouldn't they be judged by the system they so want to see pre-eminment? I call it poetic justice and have no problem with the death of a convicted terrorist.

Because the 'race to the bottom' would denigrate the concept of justice worldwide. (See also 'Lowest common denominator'.)

Quote:

He won't get prosecuted here because of the HRA handwringers and even if we did he'd get off with a slap on the wrist and a nice big benefits package.
If he 'got off' charges in the UK (presumably because he'd been found not guilty), why would he receive a "slap on the wrist"?

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35364078)
But he come is not a human rights, democracy activist or a refugee, so he has no reason not to be deported!

Sorry, could you rephrase that?

---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35364082)
Has there been an extradition request from any of those countries?

None that I'm aware of.

TheDaddy 17-01-2012 16:37

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 35364072)
"Not good" doesn't even begin to describe Jordanian 'justice'

and yet they accepted our deal with them regarding his treatment was sound, deport him anyway imo.

The Strasbourg judges accepted that the UK's deal with Jordan over treatment of deported suspects was sound

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 16:43

re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED
 
But he is not a human rights, democracy activist or a refugee, so he has no reason not to be deported!


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