Re: Eurozone will collapse...
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Signed in to say one thing..... :erm::erm::erm::erm: Thanks Hugh i now have coffee splatter marks all over my screen :D:D:D:D ...... U owe me for wipes !!!!! *yes i no that sounded wrong on various different levels ........... |
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
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As for Germany's motivation, well that's what I've been saying isn't it? They are at the heart of Europe because it suits them to be so and they have a very clear idea how to further their ambitions for growth - namely by seeking more integration within the EU with them at the helm and with its overall economic policy suiting their needs far better than it does the likes of the Med countries. I don't think that's some sort of alternative or covert Nazism either - I think it's as simple as one nation seeking to do what's right for it. The problem is that what's right for Germany isn't necessarily what's right or wanted by the rest of us and therein lies the source of growing conflict now times are getting seriously tough. ---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Eurozone will collapse...
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Re: Eurozone will collapse...
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No one has shown how Germany have benefited from this crisis. They have just suffered the least because they managed their economy considerably better than, it seems, anyone else. It was very stupid of them to suggest a referendum to the Greeks but it's a reality of the situation there, the Greek people need to know the consequences of rejecting austerity and hence the bailout money. In the context of this discussion it's ironic that Germany are the ones people suspect of a financial conspiracy :D ---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ---------- Quote:
What is effectively happening here is: Greece need a bailout, Germany say "fine, but you can't keep living as you do. You need to balance your budget and live within your means. If you do not do this, You may have to leave the Euro" and then Germany get accused of throwing their weight around and, amongst the least fair-minded, get compared to Nazi Germany. If we're going to compare anyone to 1930s Germany then Greece is a better candidate. Depression, serious economic problems for the population, the possibility of rapid inflation and all of this leading to a far-right nationalist party gaining more and more power in elections. |
Re: Eurozone will collapse...
Don't be beastly to the Hun? Seems to be another circular argument developing.
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One issue is that austerity measures can be very different depending where you start from. If you are in a "poorer" country then cutbacks could have much more impact than if you start higher up. So measures that might be unpleasant in Germany could really "hurt" in Greece.
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Re: Eurozone will collapse...
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It's not the same measures being applied across the Eurozone. It differs from country to country. |
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Sorry Damien, my attempt at irony failed. I also don't agree that Germany is somehow profiting from this debacle. However I do feel that the whole Euro project was a disaster from the outset. My opinion, solely?
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Conspiracy? Who knows, but what I know that in a competitive world, I see no obvious reason why a major economic power like Germany wouldn't use the huge influence it has clearly enjoyed in Europe for decades, to suit its own needs and ambitions first and foremost. Perhaps you could explain why you seem to find that notion so outlandish. |
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By imposing the same rules on the rest of the EU as they have in their own country, they level out some of the playing field as far as competition is concerned. If competitors can have cheaper rules and regulations then they are at an advantage. Eg China & India vs the West.
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I object to you saying I find the notion of Germany putting itself first 'outlandish'. I have said that is what they have been doing repeatedly in my last few posts. What I objected too has the comparisons with Nazi Germany which others have made. I was also pointing out that in the current situation Germany are simply protecting themselves from the fallout occurring all over the Eurozone. |
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Clearly we both agree that the Germans are acting to suit themselves first and foremost and have done quite nicely thank you. As major architects of the EU policy under which they've benefitted it can't be argued that their success is co-incidental to it. They'd never have signed up to conditions which would hinder German progress would they.
My contention is that the development of the EU and the economic straightjacket AKA the Eurozone has allowed Germany to prosper at the expense of the needs of other nations in the south particularly. Furthermore they'd be quite happen for things to continue in this vein hence their desire to keep the Eurozone intact but with strings understandably attached to limit German exposure. I don't find this at all surprising but you went down the route of arguing that memories of WWII somehow accounted for views like mine and that there was no evidence that the Germans had any desire to increase their domination of Europe, financially or politically. Forgive me but that rather sounds like you deemed my assessment outlandish and you have yet to explain why the Germans wouldn't rather like to extend their domination of Europe. They clearly haven't engineered the crisis and there are risks to Germany but to think that they (or any other country in a similar situation) wouldn't use the opportunity it provides to try to further their own aims would be naive. |
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I don't think what's going on today is comparable to Nazism either for what that's worth. However that doesn't rule out a German desire to 'run' Europe and I don't think we should overlook what's been going on for years and the resentment that's now building in Europe now either. There are huge potential dangers ahead for us all.
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