All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Makes for some interesting reading!
Hopefully Virgin will issue a firmware update to fix this issue affecting everyone using a hub3

http://m.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/0..._firmware_fix/

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Ninja'd!

This might go a long way to resolve some of the problems people were reporting with jitter.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

honestly, what do they do with the results of these trials that they run?

just ignore them

absolutely ridiculous for a company of Virginmedia's size.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Um... How is an Intel chipset issue the fault of Virgin Media :confused:

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

+ its not only Virgin Media who are affected there are other ISPs to.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

It's Virgins fault because this latency showed up in the trials, but they went ahead and issued the faulty kit anyway.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

exactly, that is the point of a trial.

same with those Tivos - ridiculously slow and released any way, total nonsense.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Great news that this is being fixed, it's really frustrating. I'm just hoping VM are fast at rolling out the fix in the new year.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

No, its not Virgins fault at all, its Intels fault.

VM obviously decided that the vast majority of people really dont care that much about it, and its something they can fix it by rolling out the fix at some point.
As I keep having to point out to all the SH3 doom and gloom merchants, my service is running just fine, using this so called "faulty kit".

The purpose of a trial is to gather information, and then use that information to make decisions, and clearly they decided they could live with this issue for now.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Finally! My latency went all over the place after getting a SH3.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Well it clearly is Virgin's fault then for brushing that issue under the carpet. If the problem was apparent and they knew about it then it comes down to Virgin.

If I own a fleet of vans and have purchased them knowing a horrifying issue with say vibration travelling at a speed and proceed to lease them out, who's fault is it? I couldn't just shrug and say it's not my fault, it's the manufacturers. I would end up losing business. I understand business decisions and sure they might have needed to these modems to progress further with their network upgrades, but you can't just wash your hand of problems that were in fact your own doing...

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Would you delay the introduction of the vans knowing that the vibration would irritate one group of users, but also knowing that (say) changes made in the engine would allow greater speed for most users? Would you delay the introduction introduction knowing that delaying it would also delay upgrades done elsewhere that benefit other users (how would it look if Virgin did an upgrade that caused further problems in this chipset?). Assuming they were aware of the problem, Virgin would have analysed the situation, and would have worked out whether the benefits of the new box outwieghed the costs (the problems caused by the chipset software being one).

Do I think Virgin is responsible for the problems with the chipset software?No. Do I think they are responsible for ensuring any fix is properly tested and distributed to their users? Yes.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Delay? Why?

Are you telling me that all the other modem manufactures also use the same chip sets in their kit too?

The same would apply for the van's, you'd just go and buy a vehicle from a different manufacturer, simple. And if you are having enough of a certain product, much like VM having modems, you can haggle with the cost too. So yes, if VM were aware of the problem, then either they couldn't be bothered to look at what other kit was on the market, or they have got the current SH3's so cheap that no one else comes close price wise, but you also get what you pay for in life too...

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

The only two things clear are its an Intel chip fault, and your desire to blame Virgin for everything.

---------- Post added at 18:14 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

All ? I doubt it, but as the very first line says ;
(i.e. Comcast, Arris, and other un-named providers).

There are plenty of screw ups made by VM, but this isnt one of them, its Intels fault, no one else.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

There is more being discussed on this issue over on the virgin community forum which gives more detail and makes for some interesting reading. :rolleyes:

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...e/td-p/3271492

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

The equipment isn't faulty, it's software that isn't correct. Read the article and you will see Intel are rolling out fix.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Seeing inconsistent latencies with a Hub 3 here, on 12 down 2 up (16 QAM).

CMTS:
https://smokeping.allan.scot/cache/T/CMTS_last_3600.png
google.co.uk:
https://smokeping.allan.scot/cache/T..._last_3600.png

The big spikes to the CMTS every ~15 minutes may be a separate problem as they don't affect traffic to further away hosts. Not sure what would be causing that. If it matters the CMTS mac vendor is RiverDelta Networks.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I have the Hitron from Virgin Media business, which reportedly uses the same Intel chipset as the Hub3, so suffers the same latency problem, yet the TBB graph appears cleaner:-

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/12/21.png

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

So guys, is this why my pings from my PC <> cat5 cable <> Hub 3.0 are 4-5ms?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

In a word, yes

---------- Post added at 17:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------

I think possibly the more bonded channels your modem is locked on to, the worse it is. I am on 20 down / 4 up. My BQM looks much noisier than your chart. How many are you on?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I think you should. Yes it is faulty because if it's not working as the way it should. That's why Intel is rolling out a fix.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

No its a software issue, not faulty equipment. Quite a difference if the equipment is FAULTY then it would need replacing. As most electrical goods that run off a CPU would need replacing every time a software upgrade is needed.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I have to admit I never even thought to look at ping times on what is effectively my local network and yes, like you I have between 4ms and 7ms for 192.168.100.1 which is poor to say the least. Seems this issue causes issues on both sides of the network.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

You could be right - I am still on 12 downstream channels and 2 up

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I just signed up for VM Vivid 200 Gamer broadband and now I'm worried about the ping based on this article. I do a lot of streaming to Twitch TV and I specifically chose that package because it doesn't have any upload traffic management. So yeah online gaming and streaming are really important to me.

I actually cancelled VM about 3 months ago to switch to Sky Broadband and the experience has been dreadful. I never had any problems with VM broadband but as soon as I switched to Sky I had constant disconnects and I never got the speed I was advertised. So I signed back up with VM and I'm having it installed on Thursday. I just really need a stable internet connection. So fingers crossed this isn't going to cause me any problems.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Ping won't affect your upload speed to Twitch, it might however cause issues with games themselves if the ping is too high.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

hardware wise, is there any difference between the black hub 3s and the white ones? aside from different coloured casing?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

They've just issued out a new superhub for me in preparation for increased speeds as im on superhub 1 at the moment.

Is superhub 3 the one with all the issues? Should i not install it for a few months then...?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

No more issues than the SH1 has.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

ah i see! had mine for years so might be a nice change...

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

From what I have seen regarding the Puma 7 modems that have started to trickle out, the problem isn't on those.

We'll probably be waiting a while for VM to roll out a fix for the Hub 3, if there ever actually is one and even a lot longer still for a Hub 4 with Puma 7 inside.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Hmm. I have to admit that this is worrying me somewhat. I need decent ping times to play MMOs while I am Twitch streaming. Do you think I could ask for a SH2 instead of a SH3 when the guy comes round to install my broadband?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Can certainly ask, depends on who you get and if he has any in the van I guess.

To be honest, I still get about 12ms to BBC on my gamer line, which to me is easily low enough for MMOs.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

A 12ms ping would be absolutely fine for me. I just hope it doesn't go up to the 100ms ping range as that is when it starts getting noticeable. I guess I'll just see how it goes.

I'm sure VM will fix the issue at some point.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Average ping isn't the problem - it's increased slightly but not enough to matter for most people.

The problem is the jitter, packet loss, and out of order packets.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Ah. OK. Well that having packet loss and jitter doesn't sound too good either. I'm not sure what to do now. I selected the broadband package I did because I really want to get into Twitch streaming in a more serious way and now I'm worried that the jitter and packet loss will cause problems for me. I'll see if I can get a SH2. Seems like the only reasonable solution to the problem.

Edit: Re-read the article.

Edit: Just read the VM forum posts on the issue and people are saying if you put the SH3 in modem only mode it fixes the issue somewhat? I've got a spare router I can use so I might just install that and hope for the best.

Final Edit: OK on further reading if that doesn't help. So I guess I just have to hope that the engineer has a spare SH2 in the van.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Yeah, the jitter isn't brilliant to be honest, not sure if that's down to the SH3 or just VM's network

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2016/12/4.png

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Well I got my Virgin Media broadband installed today. Went a lot smoother than expected. I did ask about a SH2 but he said he only had SH3 available. So with a bit of worry I accepted it. When he left I plugged my computer in via ethernet and did a speedtest which was very fast and I was quite impressed with it. Did a ping test and got 2ms of jitter which isn't the worst.

So then I did an hour long Twitch stream to make sure everything was working properly and it went perfectly. I'm actually really happy with my broadband now. I haven't seen any problems so far. Much better than my old broadband which was giving me problems left, right and centre.

Let's just hope it continues that way. I'll be doing more testing over the next few days to make sure everything is OK.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Are you sure you have a hub 3? :confused: Can we do a swap?!

http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Upgrade to as an SH2AC, never missed a beat for me. New versions of anything from VM always have problems.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Any updates on this issue?

It's also worth looking at this thread:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r310...Linear-mistake

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Arris are still awaiting Intel fix (it's unknown even if this problem is fixable)

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

It better be fixable :).

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

The silence on this issue is deafening. I can definitely see the problem myself so surprised there as been so few recent public announcements on the issue. Maybe Intel really have dropped the ball here?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

The engineer who installed my V6 yesterday tried to take away my SH2ac and swap it for a SH3.....it's a shame he had to die.... ;-)

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Your bit of network probably.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/158712822.png

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I think the issue is overblown and most people won't notice any actual problems day to day. That's why you're not hearing about it.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Here is an official ARRIS statement to this ongoing issue:

"Thank you for your ongoing feedback; your input has been valuable in helping characterize the impact of the issue. As you know, a beta patch was previously distributed in the field for testing (Just for usa) and to address the ping issue. Some of you have already received that. Going forward, this patch will be bundled with the TCP/UDP patch for a combined update and official code release. As you would expect, the TCP/UDP issue has been more challenging to develop a patch for. The good news is that Intel has now developed and issued a proposed firmware fix for the TCP/UDP issue; ARRIS is testing the latest firmware update and will roll it out to service providers as soon as testing is complete. "

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Is this the reason we're seeing a huge amount of yellow on hour TBB monitors?

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I assume so, mines the same, not that I ever really notice any actual effect.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

It doesn't seem to affect my connection either.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Same. TBB graph looks awful but my actual ping is about 14ms to bbc etc so i'm in no rush for this to be rolled out.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

It affects VOIP traffic so I'm looking forward to this being rolled out. Personally I prefer low latency over speed. I'd happily take a half speed back age if I knew the latency was going to be low.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Fair enough, I use EE's wifi calling on mine and I've not noticed any issues on , but I suppose other VoIP services might need more "stable" low latency to function properly.

Hub in modem mode with an Asus 1200G+.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I use VoIP as I don't have a landline, so just a Siemens Gigaset N300IP with DECT handsets.

I don't notice an issue at all, it's perfect.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

It's quite difficult to identify that the issue is causing problems, so don't assume that you aren't affected. It took almost a year for people to identify the behaviour of the software that was causing the problem (well documented on DSLReports).

Every modem/router that uses the affected Intel chip suffers from the problem.

The problem results in some connections being held up. This means that a simple ping test or a test over a long period of time (like TBB graph) is unlikely to show it. But if you try going to a web site, and the DNS lookup for that request is held up, your site will take longer to load.

If you're playing a game and one of your packets is held up, your game might be interrupted at a key time.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

I get that every SH3 has this issue, I'm just saying I haven't noticed any symptoms, and that VoIP works fine.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

VOIP despite what a lot of people think can handle jitter (hence the buffer). Obviously if it starts getting stupid and/or a lot of packet loss is present, then that changes things.

Re: All hub3 users affected by confirmed latency issue
 

Packet loss is something that sadly I appear to often see. Therefore VOIP calls will appear choppy at times.

I have also noticed that downloads randomly fail, with often several attempts unable to complete the download. Added to which, streaming iPlayer, Netflix or Amazon sometimes also yields a failed stream which can be annoying, especially if you can't pick back up where you left off (very common with iPlayer).

All of the above are classic symptoms of packet loss.

FWIW, my power levels are again great (in the 1-2db range) and SNR above the levels where they cause problems (35.5-37.5db). Upstream is generally steady at 35db.