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-   -   Corbyn's kerfuffle (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33702119)

Mr K 10-01-2017 12:34
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879920)
I thought you were. No worries.
Anyhoo, how does Corbyns plan of capping earnings help anything?
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.

rhyds 10-01-2017 12:42
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Its one of those "politics of envy" things that plays out fantastically well in the North Islington maxist commune, but makes very little economic or wider political sense.

First off, on the economics side, those super high earners (big players in the City, big players for City) can either structure their finances to avoid such a punitive tax rate or simply move away to another country (Europe, the US or even Ireland) to avoid it. This will hit our economy at a time it needs as much stimulus as possible.

As for the politics, the one question every Labour Cabinet Member, MP or spokesdroid will be asked from now until Brexit is "what level is the earnings cap going to be set at?" Its a classic Corbyn "back of a fag packet" policy that's as well thought through as his "women only carriages" one...

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.
However a wage cap won't really do much to makes things better for Mr J. Bloggs on the Clapham Omnibus. Its like complaining your neighbour is taller than you, and that you should be allowed to trim 6" off his legs to make up for it...

Ramrod 10-01-2017 13:16
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done.
Why? :confused:

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 13:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879912)
we're not alking about the 1970's.... The tax rate was recently cut from 50 to 45p for high earners - doubt it made diddly squat difference to them, maybe an extra few cases of champagne this xmas, or a pony for Penelope...
It would have have meant more to those lower down the can scale, or even perish the thought, invested in the riff raff's NHS....
Broadly revenue neutral:

Quote:
Head of the IFS, Paul Johnson, told the BBC Daily Politics earlier this week that

“The best estimate is that it looks like by cutting the top rate from 50p to 45p, it might have cost you a very small amount, probably… it’s not bringing in lots of additional revenue but it’s probably not costing much either.”
Link

There was a temporary dividend to the treasury of £8bn as higher rate earners moved their income declaration into the lower rate year.

Putting it back up wouldn't make loads of money available either as with many taxes there is an optimum rate that maximises revenue. Too high a rate is a self inflicted wound to a countries finances, just ask the French who are now desperate to bring down their swinging top rates as all their high earners come over to London.

Osem 10-01-2017 13:49
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Some people clearly never learn from past mistakes and I'm not just referring to the Islington elite. They don't even learn from the more recent mistakes made in France. It's quite bizarre but that's political dogma for you.

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 14:05
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The French example is a lesson in that high taxes on the rich do not raise the revenue expected:

Quote:
Finance ministry studies showed that despite all the publicity, the sums obtained from the supertax were meagre, standing at €260m in 2013 and €160m in 2014, and affecting 1,000 staff in 470 companies. Over the same period, the budget deficit soared to €84.7bn.

The decision to drop the tax is a personal blow for Hollande and only one of a number of government U-turns since he was elected, fuelling criticism that he is indecisive and lacking presidential authority.
Linky

They have now, very quietly, reduced this rate down to 50%.

Osem 10-01-2017 14:28
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35879938)
The French example is a lesson in that high taxes on the rich do not raise the revenue expected:



Linky

They have now, very quietly, reduced this rate down to 50%.
Yeah but it was a great idea, truly visionary and not at all a silly populist measure aimed at getting the votes of those who can't see beyond the ends of their noses... :rofl:

Mr Banana 10-01-2017 15:35
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.
Why does something need to be done, as long as the super earners pay their share of tax it shouldn't matter to anyone what others earn.

Taf 10-01-2017 16:31
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?

TheDaddy 10-01-2017 17:49
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879899)
tbf to the Govt. they did do something.

Cut the top rate of tax for high earners to make the gap between rich and poor even greater :rolleyes:
And they scrapped plans for workers to be on boards, just to make sure the gap didn't get any smaller. They could look into remuneration committees to and ask if it's appropriate for people to sit on each others and be open to claims that it's all a back scratching exercise.

Sadly though rather than think of things to even things up it seems some people would rather poo poo it completely and hark back to days before most of us were born, nothing has to be extreme and it's probably doomed if it is.

martyh 10-01-2017 18:03
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35879955)
Why does something need to be done, as long as the super earners pay their share of tax it shouldn't matter to anyone what others earn.
Something needs to be done but definitely not capping anyones wages ,maybe we could try actually paying a real living wage ,the type of wage so people can buy a house ,have one holiday a year own a car and save a bit for a rainy day without being in constant debt .Instead of bringing wages down from the top why not bring them up from the bottom .I don't think many people expect to be paid fortunes for doing menial jobs but they should be able to pay the rent without needing state benefits

Damien 10-01-2017 18:37
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35879963)
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?
The PM or even the Head of the Civil Service wouldn't earn enough to get caught in this pay cap. It's 20x the lowest paid staff. So with minimum wage the theoretical minimum at which the cap would be applied is roughly £262,480 (unless I've done the maths wrong - £6.31 for minimum wage I think).

It might impact the Chief Executives of some Government organisations though.

Corbyn is all over the place anyway. I suspect he meant a real pay cap and added this ratio thing at the last moment after his aides saw the reaction. It's an utter mess at the moment and I fail to see what Corbyn's goal actually is by continuing as leader other than to allow a far-left take-over of the party or actual delusion that it's going well so far.

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 18:40
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35879999)
Corbyn is all over the place anyway. I suspect he meant a real pay cap and added this ratio thing at the last moment after his aides saw the reaction. It's an utter mess at the moment and I fail to see what Corbyn's goal actually is by continuing as leader other than to allow a far-left take-over of the party or actual delusion that it's going well so far.
Total disarray. It's what you get when you have frustrated student in charge of a political party. :rolleyes:

Osem 10-01-2017 19:38
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Yet another of Corbyn's ideas has gone down well:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7519681.html

Quote:
Academic Richard Murphy, who advised Mr Corbyn during his leadership bid, said the proposal was "incoherent".

He said: "It doesn't make any economic sense at all. You cannot impose such a cap.

"Jeremy needs to sit down and get some proper advice. Whoever is advising him now is not giving the right advice or Jeremy isn't simply asking them before making these comments."
Well why would someone who's living in a world of his own listen to common sense?

Corbyn is totally out of his depth and being exploited by a load of hard left lunatics who're in denial I reckon.

Hugh 10-01-2017 19:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35879963)
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?
Considering the UK median salary in 2015 was £27,600, and the average Civil Service salary was £25,000 (DWP £22,120), why would you do that?

https://www.incometaxcalculator.org....-salary-uk.php

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...rvice-salaries

Now, if you had said top Civil Servants (of which there aren't that many...), I would have probably agreed with you...


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