Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302417)

Our block of flats was the only one on our street not connected to Virgin fibre optic, so we requested a communal connection.

Originally Posted by RB2004 (Post 35302724)

As has been pointed out, the reason for black is because black cables are UV resistant it is not black for aesthetic reasons.

If white was used, it would become brittle, discolour and be suseptible to failure through degredation.

there is no other way for VM to install this cable other than to clip it to walls.. cables strictly speaking arent allowed inside cavity walls, engineers arent supposed to be climbing in roof spaces due to health and safety, and its impractical to expect them to start chasing out walls in the alotted amount of time they have... not to mention that if they did it would then need repairing and making good after. Nor can they mess about lifting floorboards.

So how else do you propose they install these cables? other than clipping it to walls, and if they used white cable, which isnt as UV resistant.. would you be happy to pick up the bill for replacing it every couple of years, or accept an increase in monthly subscriptions to cover the white cable replacement every time it fails. Also im sure many customers would be quick to complain to VM when their services fail, even though it would of been their choice to take the risk and use white cable... using black is good business sense as it is longer lasting.

The only way around this issue, is either to paint it white, cap it in some way as mentioned... or chase out the walls yourself and bury the cable.

BT also use black cables as mentioned, for the same reasons.. and most aerial installers should also be using black outside.

I certainly would not be abandoning VM for BT Infinity, for all VMs flaws, at least "generally" their broadband speeds are acceptably need to what they are selling it to be.

BT infinity, they tried to sell me that one.. kept saying oh you can get 40mbit with BT infinity.. then they did a speed check and told me id only recieve half.. 20mbit, and so far VM seem to be 1 step ahead... BT release 40mbit, VM release 100mbit, BT planning 80mbit in 2012... VM rumour has it are planning 200mbit.

Also may I quote,



the fact you requested it, can be deemed acceptance.

As you must of had some idea how it is installed... just about every other home on VMs network is cabled in the same way, black cable, although they do try to hide it where possible, and also, during the time it was being installed, in all fairness other people was in the building and could of said something to the people installing it, rather than sit there ignorantly and idley letting them get on with it and wait until they was finished... if somebody else brought that to the installers attention while it was being installed, maybe they could of found a different route for it or done it in a more acceptable manner...Certainly when I had an extra V+ box shoved in, the engineer did not object to me telling him I wanted the cable installed a certain way... namely outside, rather than drilling through a wall into the next bedroom.

If you remove the cables yourself, it can be deemed as criminal damage. As they are property of Virgin Media

Also, technically no matter how BT sell infinity it is not fibre optic, nor is VM.. although VM is probably more fibre optic than BT.

BT Infinity, is fibre optic to the cabinet.. but from the cabinet on the broadband is still delivered down the same cable as your telephone.. so its technically VDSL... whereby DSL is delivered from the cabinet rather than the exchange.. but at the end of the day its still via a phone line.

Whereas VM, the phone line and the data transport cable for your TV and Internet are kept separately, and because VM use RG6 / RG11 for the TV and broadband which is a lot thicker copper wire than bog standard telephone lines not only does it have a lesser resistance, but lower signal loss and degradation.. and due to the shielding less interference technically as well... and VM, also have multiple cabinets/pits near to the home which are amplified along the cabke run so the final run to the home is kept to a minimal amount.

Whereas BT might only have a single cabinet which is quite some distance away,,, like here, the BT cabinet is all the way down the other end of the road, then because it is delivered via the telephone lines it still suffers from the same ADSL problem slower speeds the further you are away... albeit the cabinet is nearer than the exchange so the drop in speed is less.. however it is still there as is evident when they try to sell me 40mbit bt infinity and tell me I can only get 20mbit still.

So really VM is still a more superior network.

Only problem VM have though, is that they dont have the finances available that BT have, so in many areas they are over utilised causing problems but they dont have the money to keep upgrading as much as they would like.

Originally Posted by jb66 (Post 35302604)

Someone forgot his own question.....

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302804)

Like I said. I wasn't aware that Virgin only used black cables. I foolishly assumed some kind of asthetic installation standard would be adhered to. My bad.

Perhaps Virgin should consider issuing some kind of standard information letter or email to potential customers of large blocks of flats explaining that black cabling will be used, and that 6 inch coils of wire will be pinned next to the window ledge of each flat.

To answer your other point: I don't believe anyone was around when the installation was done - everybody here works full time and I was on holiday. And no notice was given about when the installation was going to be done.

Thanks for the info tho. But with BT Infinity - if they already use the phone line from the box to the building, then what extra need would there be to install cables around the outside of the building?

If I understand correctly - it's fibre optic to the box and then the existing phone line to the building.

As for taking down the Virgin cables - no damage or cutting would need doing. We could just pull it down and bunch it up in the bushes in the front garden. It'd still be connected to the street line and not damaged in any way.

I accept that Virgin is better than BT Infinity, but I can't begin to describe how bad it looks. Painting the cables white would be expensive as it's a 4 storey building and access is difficult.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------



True, this is what I first asked but the discussion has transmogrified, as discussions are wont to do :)

Originally Posted by RB2004 (Post 35302825)

The extra need for the extra cable is that having it separate from the phone line delivers a superior service. Only reason BT are sticking to using the telphone lines and using VDSL is for cost reasons... easier for them to shove it down a phone line than install a separate data cable to the home.

Thats the difference between BT and VM, BT seem to be sticking with DSL, just finding ways to deliver it "better" and 1 such way has been to deliver it from the cabinet rather than the exchange.. but none the less it still suffers the same problem speed loss over distance and is effected by the quality of the line.

Whereas VM use coax, which is more network orientated anyway as some computer networks before CAT5 etc were used, were actually interconnected via Coax, so Coax has always been a data network infrastructure and is a network in the truer sense than DSL making it superiour.. and like I said it is less prone to interference, the signal strength is higher.. namely because the copper core of a coax cable is bigger than the strands of a telephone cable.. and VM also amplify the signal along the cable run in their pits and cabinets so the final drop length to the home is usually minimal.

I know to you it doesnt seem like criminal damage, but I doubt VM would be happy about you unclipping it as that cable probably wont be re-used.. and also, who will pick up the costs if 1 person decides they want it again and you have removed it all?

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302867)

White cable does exist doesn't it? Sky use it all the time.

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302867)

Does everyone on here work for Virgin or something?

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302917)

Ok thank you... I get it! Black cabling better than white. Sadly black cabling is incompatible with large white Georgian blocks of flats so it's adios to Virgin and hello BT Infinity. Bit of a shame that all the work the installers has done has gone to waste, but they still get paid.

I still think that someone in the Virgin management chain should give explicit warnings before installing black cabling all over the outside of a white building in a conservation area. After all, it's their time, equipment and money they've wasted on this occasion.

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 35302921)

When exactly should this warning be given?
When you phone up to arrange it without stating that your building is white and in a conservation area?
Or after they've turned up to install it and see it's a white building, and when, by your own admission, no one was in the building?

VM are not psychic, they don't have a database of white buildings. This was something you should have sorted out, as you're the one that knows your building has special requirements.

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302718)

End result: either Virgin or ourselves take down the black cabling. If anyone here wants fibre optic, we'll subscribe to BT Infinity.

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302804)

Like I said. I wasn't aware that Virgin only used black cables. I foolishly assumed some kind of asthetic installation standard would be adhered to.

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302867)

Does everyone on here work for Virgin or something?

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 35302921)

When exactly should this warning be given?
When you phone up to arrange it without stating that your building is white and in a conservation area?
Or after they've turned up to install it and see it's a white building, and when, by your own admission, no one was in the building?

VM are not psychic, they don't have a database of white buildings. This was something you should have sorted out, as you're the one that knows your building has special requirements.

Originally Posted by Kizza (Post 35302932)

I'm surprised that VM don't have procedures in place to avoid wasting their money.